KISS setup - WML mounting on MOE mlok handguard

Hey guys, I’m looking to piece out a sort of KISS setup - 16” Colt carbine, light as possible, keeping it simple with just a polymer MOE mlok handguard and FSB.

I want to mount a white light on the rifle - probably a Surefire G2X or maybe some scout style light. What would be the optimum mounts to achieve this? I understand the MOE handguards out right now are MLOK, so theoretically should be able to use any mlok mount, but since many of the mlok mounts out there seem to be made more for the longer free float mlok handguards, i wanted to see if there’s mounts that would be optimum for this particular handguard (shorter, with A2 FSB, using thumb to a actuate tail cap).

Prior research shows the IWC SMC mounts to be promising, as well as the Magpul light rail mount or their cantilever mounts. Any experience with them?

Thanks in advance.

May I suggest a slightly different approach...MOE SL handguard with a Mossie Midnight 1913 FSB Mount and Surefire X300U (photos shown on the Arisaka site) or the new Modlite PL350

FWIW I have two mid length uppers with MOE handguards and FSB using the IWC SMC mounts and 1" Streamlights. Perfect for my long arms using thumb-to-tailcap.

I just bought another SMC mount for a carbine length upper with an MOE SL and FSB. I have not mounted the light yet, but I know it will be an improvement on the current mount.

I have experimented on that upper with the Magpul Cantilever mount and their V-Block and rings, but it wasn't ideal. IIRC the light wasn't as tucked in toward the handguard as well as the IWC mount is on the other uppers.

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Originally Posted by titsonritz

May I suggest a slightly different approach...MOE SL handguard with a Mossie Midnight 1913 FSB Mount and Surefire X300U (photos shown on the Arisaka site) or the new Modlite PL350

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I really like this setup. Used Phlster's ARC long switches to get a little extra reach backwards.

If you wanted to maximize the short MOE real estate for hand placement you could use something like this:

https://www.gggaz.com/the-dually-dua...ory-mount.html or this:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1003375327

I intend to do as the Fleeting Survival Blog author did after I get the light I want. https://fleetingsurvival.com/2015/09...-sl-handguard/

https://fleetingsurvival.com/wp-cont...9/IMG_8083.jpg

About how many mags can you shoot off at a decent rate before you think the light would be too hot to the touch? Am looking to also do some high volume shooting.

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Originally Posted by titsonritz

May I suggest a slightly different approach...MOE SL handguard with a Mossie Midnight 1913 FSB Mount and Surefire X300U (photos shown on the Arisaka site) or the new Modlite PL350

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About how many mags can you shoot off at a decent rate before you think the light would be too hot to the touch? Am looking to also do some high volume shooting.

The light with one of those setups probably won't get hot until you've put 4 or 5 mags through the gun. The handguards on the other hand are going to be quite toastie after 2 mags shot at a fairly rapid pace.

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Originally Posted by TexasAggie2005

I really like this setup. Used Phlster's ARC long switches to get a little extra reach backwards.

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Thank you for that little tidbit, I did not know it existed.

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Originally Posted by TomMcC

The light with one of those setups probably won't get hot until you've put 4 or 5 mags through the gun. The handguards on the other hand are going to be quite toastie after 2 mags shot at a fairly rapid pace.

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Disciple

I intend to do as the Fleeting Survival Blog author did after I get the light I want. https://fleetingsurvival.com/2015/09...-sl-handguard/

https://fleetingsurvival.com/wp-cont...9/IMG_8083.jpg

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My youngest son has this setup on a carbine gas upper. Pretty good use of real estate on that handguard.

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Originally Posted by Kadelic

FWIW I have two mid length uppers with MOE handguards and FSB using the IWC SMC mounts and 1" Streamlights. Perfect for my long arms using thumb-to-tailcap.

I just bought another SMC mount for a carbine length upper with an MOE SL and FSB. I have not mounted the light yet, but I know it will be an improvement on the current mount.

I have experimented on that upper with the Magpul Cantilever mount and their V-Block and rings, but it wasn't ideal. IIRC the light wasn't as tucked in toward the handguard as well as the IWC mount is on the other uppers.

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I am also running a IWC SMC mount on a mid-length with MOE Mlok handguard but with a Surefire G2X Tactical light. It has worked for years.

Andy

Another vote for IWC SMC. Simple, cheap, effective. I have them on several rifles and they're excellent.

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Originally Posted by Caballo

About how many mags can you shoot off at a decent rate before you think the light would be too hot to the touch? Am looking to also do some high volume shooting.

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Originally Posted by TomMcC

The light with one of those setups probably won't get hot until you've put 4 or 5 mags through the gun. The handguards on the other hand are going to be quite toastie after 2 mags shot at a fairly rapid pace.

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The gas block will get hot
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...-hQw3dvq-M.jpg
But the light will not. The photo above was taken after I'd run 500 rounds through the AR in one day at the range. The gas block was hot enough that water poured on it turned to steam. But the Mossie Mount and light stayed cool to the touch.

I can tell you from experience, it takes more than 4 or 5 mags to get Magpul handguards warm. Slimlines are better than MOEs.

Another option is to modify a pic rail so it can be mounted inside the top half of the hand guard.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...dXtFvSL-X5.jpg

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Originally Posted by Caballo

About how many mags can you shoot off at a decent rate before you think the light would be too hot to the touch? Am looking to also do some high volume shooting.

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One magazine.

The Mossie mount shown in the second post doesn't seem like a good idea. Whoever designed that probably never fire a round with the light mounted. Placing the light so close to the barrel and front sight tower is not a good idea. Yes the front sight tower heats up, not as hot as the barrel but it gets very warm. Operating a tailcap or toggle switch on lights like a Surefire 300 will definitely put your digit in touch with a hot piece of metal.

This is about as simple as you can get: an old Surefire 6p with a Malkoff lamp mounted in a 1” scope ring. Been running this set up for years with lots of practice night firing.Attachment 66429

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Originally Posted by Sam

One magazine.

The Mossie mount shown in the second post doesn't seem like a good idea. Whoever designed that probably never fire a round with the light mounted. Placing the light so close to the barrel and front sight tower is not a good idea. Yes the front sight tower heats up, not as hot as the barrel but it gets very warm. Operating a tailcap or toggle switch on lights like a Surefire 300 will definitely put your digit in touch with a hot piece of metal.

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You would be wrong about that Sam, Buck Mossie designed the rail. I'd say don't knock it 'til you try it. Here is a little back ground on who and what we're talking about...

Return of the Mossie Tactics Midnight Mount
Blue Force Gear Vickers slings approved for duty use with LAPD
FOX 11 joins LAPD raids on illegal casinos operating throughout San Fernando Valley neighborhoods

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Originally Posted by Sam

One magazine.

The Mossie mount shown in the second post doesn't seem like a good idea. Whoever designed that probably never fire a round with the light mounted. Placing the light so close to the barrel and front sight tower is not a good idea. Yes the front sight tower heats up, not as hot as the barrel but it gets very warm. Operating a tailcap or toggle switch on lights like a Surefire 300 will definitely put your digit in touch with a hot piece of metal.

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I've not burned myself using the Mossie Midnight Mount during night fire practice. But then, I've switched to the MagPul Slimline handguards which gives a little more protection from a hot FSB.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...Nm4768t-X5.jpg

Anyway, As I said earlier, although the FSB was plenty hot after a few hundred rounds, the Mossie Mount and light were still cool to the touch and I was able to switch on the light without burning myself. The only problem I've encountered with this setup is the beam backlighting the gunsmoke and obscuring the target.

I was wondering about that Mossy. Is it difficult to operate the light switch? It looks a bit of reach for your thumb.

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Originally Posted by titsonritz

You would be wrong about that Sam, Buck Mossie designed the rail. I'd say don't knock it 'til you try it. Here is a little back ground on who and what we're talking about...

Return of the Mossie Tactics Midnight Mount
Blue Force Gear Vickers slings approved for duty use with LAPD
FOX 11 joins LAPD raids on illegal casinos operating throughout San Fernando Valley neighborhoods

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Let's say we agree to disagree on the actual application of this mount with regards to its close proximity to the front sight tower.

I didn't know the association that Detective Mossie had with the design. Is he the same as the "Buck" that was a moderator here. I think I met him once at least a dozen years ago. He was a personable gentleman during our short meeting at the SHOT show. And I'm familiar with Mr. Vickers, as I've trained with him numerous times including night shooting sessions.

My very real concern about the mount or any mount that place the light near the front sight tower is that it requires the user to reach his finger/thumb around the sight to manipulate. A person wearing gloves might not feel the heat. But a civilian who is NOT an operator may not be wearing a glove. I am not an operator, never kicked down any doors, never serve a single warrant. But I have shot ten thousands of rounds in practice and training. I do know that an A2 front sight will get hot after 30 rounds.

Oh wait, I do operate keyboards and automobiles. Does that count?

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Originally Posted by Sam

Let's say we agree to disagree on the actual application of this mount with regards to its close proximity to the front sight tower.

I didn't know the association that Detective Mossie had with the design. Is he the same as the "Buck" that was a moderator here. I think I met him once at least a dozen years ago. He was a personable gentleman during our short meeting at the SHOT show. And I'm familiar with Mr. Vickers, as I've trained with him numerous times including night shooting sessions.

My very real concern about the mount or any mount that place the light near the front sight tower is that it requires the user to reach his finger/thumb around the sight to manipulate. A person wearing gloves might not feel the heat. But a civilian who is NOT an operator may not be wearing a glove. I am not an operator, never kicked down any doors, never serve a single warrant. But I have shot ten thousands of rounds in practice and training. I do know that an A2 front sight will get hot after 30 rounds.

Oh wait, I do operate keyboards and automobiles. Does that count?

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The burning of your thumb was sort of on my mind too. You that have used the Mossy, is this a problem?

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Originally Posted by Sam

Is he the same as the "Buck" that was a moderator here.

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Yes. He use mod the private LEO forum here on M4C, also.

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Originally Posted by TomMcC

I was wondering about that Mossy. Is it difficult to operate the light switch? It looks a bit of reach for your thumb.

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For me, no. My arms are a little long, though. It might be a stretch for someone with arms on the shorter side.

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Originally Posted by TomMcC

The burning of your thumb was sort of on my mind too. You that have used the Mossy, is this a problem?

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No.

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Originally Posted by Sam

Let's say we agree to disagree on the actual application of this mount with regards to its close proximity to the front sight tower...

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I've had a Mossie mount for years and have run the AR it was mounted on hard more than one occasion. I've shot with it in the dark, practicing turning the light on and off. I've never burned myself manipulation the switch. Is it possible to get burned? Yes. After shooting a lot of rounds and getting the FSB hot. I don't often shoot with gloves. I'm not LE or military.

In the process, I've discovered a few things-
- The only time the light gets hot is when it's switched on
- I like the simplicity of the setup
- I like having a weapon light mounted at the 12 o'clock position, especially when the AR is suppressed
- The AR it's mounted to is for house defense and campsite security. If the AR should ever be needed, the light will be switched on before any shots are fired.
- The light gets much hotter from just being turned on than it does from a hot FSB

The Mossie Mount may not work for everyone, but it does work well. It's lightweight and trouble free. I don't think the Mossie Mount is the do-all, be-all light solution, but it's the best one for my AR and my purposes. At least try it before dismissing it.

I'm a big fan of the IWC mounts. The version I use is for the standard M4/CAR-15 handguards, but I believe the Magpul version works the same.

I like how close it keeps the light to the FSP without actually contacting it.
https://i.imgur.com/36fGq2b.jpg

I also like that I can keep it mounted on the right side of the weapon, and the slim handguard allows me room to wrap my support hand thumb over the top of the handguard (with a "C-Clamp" type grip) to activate it. Positioning it this way also keep the light out of my way when it's not needed.
https://i.imgur.com/hegkXb4.jpg

On top of that, it's in the perfect spot for me to reach with my strong side thumb should I choose to switch shoulders.
https://i.imgur.com/SAMVx7Z.jpg

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Originally Posted by Rogue556

https://i.imgur.com/SAMVx7Z.jpg

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What is that Micro mount you are running?

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Originally Posted by titsonritz

What is that Micro mount you are running?

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It's the Knights Armament High Rise mount. As far as I know, it's the tallest micro mount available at 2.33". It's not for everyone of course, but I've come to really like the taller mounts. The dot seems to just appear in my line of sight with little to no effort. It's nice not having to lower my head to find the dot.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

I think this is what you're looking for: https://magpul.com/firearm-accessori...obal_color=118

You're going in a really good direction. For an AR that doesn't have to accommodate a laser aimer, this is an ideal setup.

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Originally Posted by TomMcC

The light with one of those setups probably won't get hot until you've put 4 or 5 mags through the gun. The handguards on the other hand are going to be quite toastie after 2 mags shot at a fairly rapid pace.

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This is true. If you plan doing a high volume of fire, you're going to miss the original double heat shield handguards, in which case you might consider the IWC mount instead. My only complaint with that setup would be the lack of provision for a forward grip, which for me is pretty essential to be able to press the tail switch with my thumb and still get enough leverage to control the muzzle flip. That's what's nice about the MOE handguards is they have options for forward grips without having to add janky rails.

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Originally Posted by TomMcC

The light with one of those setups probably won't get hot until you've put 4 or 5 mags through the gun. The handguards on the other hand are going to be quite toastie after 2 mags shot at a fairly rapid pace.

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It takes a lot of shooting before the Magpul MOE or Slimline handguards get uncomfortably hot.

Yeah, you pointed that out to me earlier in the thread. Since you have first hand experience, I did believe you.

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Originally Posted by TomMcC

Yeah, you pointed that out to me earlier in the thread.

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You're right. My apologies for the repeat. I made that post late at night after a loooong day.

I'll go sit in a corner, now.

Love the Mossie mount. Got mine early on and run it with Streamlight TLR-1 (more recently upgraded to a HL) on a light weight mid-length. The mount does not get hot and the light does not get hot. Upgraded my Mlok MOE to the SL which makes this light set up even better.

After going to all kinds of rails back in early 2000s to today, I've gone to the KISS route about 5 years now. In the early 2000s Surefire had their drop in rails which worked fine. I've also used Daniel Defense rails as well. Since I've dropped the front vertical grip and don't need any laser and other high speed operator stuff, I've gone to the plastic one. I think this one is a BCM with keymod slots. I happened to pick it because it was available at the time. A plastic Surefire light is adequate for me. I don't need 1,000,000 lumens aircraft landing light, just enough light to see across the inside of my little house, I think the farthest from one end to another less than 15 yards straight shot. I can't remember the mount's manufacturer, I think it was $30. Poor man's Bushnell red dot, $75, with about 1000 rounds fired with it.

My hand is nowhere near the hot metal components.

https://i.imgur.com/ViLdzjY.jpg

I’m not going to link to a knockoff, but pretty sure Botach has a version of the Mossy mount.

I have a write up about the IWC mount on a old style two piece handguard (my current setup) and also include some info on an ArmsUnlimited front sight post mount that worked well enough.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...t-mount-on-SBR


Edit... I was reading the later posts and forgot the post title referred to a M-Lok handguard. Hope the info is still helpful.

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Originally Posted by Sam

Let's say we agree to disagree on the actual application of this mount with regards to its close proximity to the front sight tower.

I didn't know the association that Detective Mossie had with the design. Is he the same as the "Buck" that was a moderator here. I think I met him once at least a dozen years ago. He was a personable gentleman during our short meeting at the SHOT show. And I'm familiar with Mr. Vickers, as I've trained with him numerous times including night shooting sessions.

My very real concern about the mount or any mount that place the light near the front sight tower is that it requires the user to reach his finger/thumb around the sight to manipulate. A person wearing gloves might not feel the heat. But a civilian who is NOT an operator may not be wearing a glove. I am not an operator, never kicked down any doors, never serve a single warrant. But I have shot ten thousands of rounds in practice and training. I do know that an A2 front sight will get hot after 30 rounds.

Oh wait, I do operate keyboards and automobiles. Does that count?

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The hot FSB always been my thought on a light mount forward of it and I even had one of the Troy rails although admittedly it is probably unlikely to fire enough rounds in a self defense scenario to get burned.

From a more practical angle(to me at least) is the barrel shadow at anywhere other than cast from TDC as being a real problem and have been happy with a strong side mount. Only thing I could kind of see is strong to weak side transition, but that also seems like it would be well in to an unlikely thing and ends up gearing/training for a less likely scenario.