308 Win. twist rate?

A few years back I bought a Remington 700 SPS Varmint (26" 1 in 12 twist heavy barrel) in 308 Win. They had them on sale for $420 or $440 IIRC, so I had to buy it.

I swapped out the cheap flimsy plastic stock with a Bell & Carlson M40 stock, bedded the action and put a Timney trigger in it. It has a Leupold Mk 4 4.5-14x50mm LR/T scope. It shoots Federal Gold Metal 168gr. BTHP absolutely awesome, sub MOA.

I wanted to try the Federal Gold Metal 175gr. BTHP to see how well they shoot. I was wondering if the 1 in 12 twist would work with the heavier bullets? Doesn't the USMC M40A1/A3/A5 all have 1 in 12 twist and use 175gr. bullets?

Thanks, NYH1.

Those twist rates are guidelines but not hard facts. I have a 1/9 Rem 700 5R that "shouldn't shoot 77 grain bullets, but it shoots 77, 80 grain bullets just fine. Buy a box and shoot and find out. I had a 308 Remmy 5R 11.25 twist and it shot 175's just fine.

PB

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Originally Posted by Pappabear

Those twist rates are guidelines but not hard facts. I have a 1/9 Rem 700 5R that "shouldn't shoot 77 grain bullets, but it shoots 77, 80 grain bullets just fine. Buy a box and shoot and find out. I had a 308 Remmy 5R 11.25 twist and it shot 175's just fine.

PB

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Thanks Pappabear.

I too have a 700 5R 223 with 1 in 9. I actually set my 308 up just like my 223. It's also a good shooter. The heaviest I've tried in my 5R so far were Winchester Match 69gr. BTHP and Federal Gold Metal 69gr. BTHP. The Federal's shoot a little better so I just stuck with them.

NYH1.

I have that same rifle with the same twist rate, barrel cut to 24" and braked. It shoots FGMM 175's fine, sub MOA.

I also have a Rem 5R with a 20" barrel and it handles the 175's fine.

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Originally Posted by maximus83

I have that same rifle with the same twist rate, barrel cut to 24" and braked. It shoots FGMM 175's fine, sub MOA.

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Cool, good to know.

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Originally Posted by Watrdawg

I also have a Rem 5R with a 20" barrel and it handles the 175's fine.

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My 223 is the 5R. My 308 is/was an SPS Varmint. Still good to know yours handle the 175's ok.

Thanks, NYH1.

What I haven't tried yet--and would like to this summer--is to see what the 1:12 factory barrel's upper limit is. For instance, I wonder if it'll struggle with a heavy load designed for long range, something in 180/185gr like the Berger Juggernaut.

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Originally Posted by NYH1

Thanks Pappabear.

I too have a 700 5R 223 with 1 in 9. I actually set my 308 up just like my 223. It's also a good shooter. The heaviest I've tried in my 5R so far were Winchester Match 69gr. BTHP and Federal Gold Metal 69gr. BTHP. The Federal's shoot a little better so I just stuck with them.

NYH1.

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At one point in time I had the 5R in 223, 308 and 300WM all set up exactly the same. Same scope....Peeps talk about getting a .22LR for training for larger calibers. That 5R in 223 is the perfect trainer, zero recoil great practice weapon.

PB

My 12 twist REM 700.308 shoots 175s great. 20 inch barrel.... That 26 inch barrel is going to give you more velocity, and thus, more RPMS on the bullet.

I used to think that was B.S. until I down loaded some long bullets to sub sonic in my gun.... they key holed. But at full velocity, they shot round holes.

My 1/12 actually hates 168 smk at 1000 yards because the shape of the boat tail makes them suck in trans-sonic. I get a 12 yard spray zone of possible bullet impacts. But with 175s, I can get out to 1300 yards.

My Rem 5R 20" actually shoots Hornady 178 ELD-X factory better than Federal GM Match 175's.

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Originally Posted by markm

My 12 twist REM 700.308 shoots 175s great. 20 inch barrel.... That 26 inch barrel is going to give you more velocity, and thus, more RPMS on the bullet.

I used to think that was B.S. until I down loaded some long bullets to sub sonic in my gun.... they key holed. But at full velocity, they shot round holes.

My 1/12 actually hates 168 smk at 1000 yards because the shape of the boat tail makes them suck in trans-sonic. I get a 12 yard spray zone of possible bullet impacts. But with 175s, I can get out to 1300 yards.

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I have a Rem M700 in 300BO. It is 1 in 7 twist.

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Originally Posted by maximus83

What I haven't tried yet--and would like to this summer--is to see what the 1:12 factory barrel's upper limit is. For instance, I wonder if it'll struggle with a heavy load designed for long range, something in 180/185gr like the Berger Juggernaut.

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A friend of mine has a 1:12 sps and was able to shoot the 208 amax with really good results. They had to be single loaded, and we were around 5000ft, but they worked well for him. The 185gr juggernaut also shot really well for him.

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Originally Posted by pyrotechnic

A friend of mine has a 1:12 sps and was able to shoot the 208 amax with really good results. They had to be single loaded, and we were around 5000ft, but they worked well for him. The 185gr juggernaut also shot really well for him.

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Great info, thanks. I would not have guessed that the factory 1:12 could handle a 208gr bullet very well. I'll be content with mine if it can do well the 185gr Bergers, those are the ones I'm interested in.

Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it!

NYH1.

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Originally Posted by maximus83

Great info, thanks. I would not have guessed that the factory 1:12 could handle a 208gr bullet very well. I'll be content with mine if it can do well the 185gr Bergers, those are the ones I'm interested in.

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I shot the 185 Juggernaut out of my factory Remington 1:12 barrel and they did better than 175 smk’s at range (4-500m). No idea about groups close in though.

As another reference point, my .308 Bartlein 1:10 5R (23 inches) shoots the 180 grain Federal Fusion better than any other factory load, in the .35 MOA range at 200 yards. I have to imagine the terminal ballistics are pretty good too.

I stopped out to Bass Pro today to get my pop's a few shirts. Grabbed a couple boxes of the 175gr. while I was there. Hopefully it'll stop raining and I'll be able to see how they shoot. I put together a 14.5" SOCOM upper last week I want to put some more round through too.

NYH1.

It shoots the 175's as well as it shoots the 168's, at least out to 200 yds. Had to move the group about a 1/2 inch left, elevation was fine. Also put some more rounds through the new SOCOM upper build! :cool:

NYH1.

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Originally Posted by Canonshooter

As another reference point, my .308 Bartlein 1:10 5R (23 inches) shoots the 180 grain Federal Fusion better than any other factory load, in the .35 MOA range at 200 yards. I have to imagine the terminal ballistics are pretty good too.

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That damn Fusion is a good factory load. I bought some one time and was shocked.

PB

I have a 700 PSS produced in 1993. It is a 24”, 1:12” twist barrel. It handles both 175 gr Federal GMM and my hand loads fine. In fact, the factory Federal is typically sub 1/2 MOA groups for five rounds. I’ve taken it to 900 yards and managed 4-5” groups. I think you’ll be fine, but every barrel is different. Just give it a try.


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I keep Federal Fusion 62gr. in our M4's incase something go's bump in the night....or the day. I've thought about trying them in our deer rifles. Heard good things about them.

NYH1.

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Originally Posted by NYH1

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Originally Posted by Pappabear

Those twist rates are guidelines but not hard facts. I have a 1/9 Rem 700 5R that "shouldn't shoot 77 grain bullets, but it shoots 77, 80 grain bullets just fine. Buy a box and shoot and find out. I had a 308 Remmy 5R 11.25 twist and it shot 175's just fine.

PB

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Thanks Pappabear.

I too have a 700 5R 223 with 1 in 9. I actually set my 308 up just like my 223. It's also a good shooter. The heaviest I've tried in my 5R so far were Winchester Match 69gr. BTHP and Federal Gold Metal 69gr. BTHP. The Federal's shoot a little better so I just stuck with them.

NYH1.

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I shot some Hornday Match 75 gr. BTHP's in my 5R 223 this past weekend. They actually shot pretty good.

NYH1.

Hello I have a Remington 700 L/A 308 with Douglas 1/10 24 inch barrel it likes the heavier bullets 175, 190 grain out 400 yards Remington 700 AAC-SD S/A Tactical Rifling 1/10 20 inch likes 175 out 400 yards the range ,geoff3

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Originally Posted by NYH1

I shot some Hornday Match 75 gr. BTHP's in my 5R 223 this past weekend. They actually shot pretty good.

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We shot some smoking hot 80s a few weeks back. I meant to post the velocities because they were ridiculous. Ended up clogging the firing pin with blown primer frags. (we're dumb asses)

Hello I have Savage Model 12 223 26 barrel not sure of the twist shoots the 69's and 75's really good doesn't like the 80's ,those sound like hot loads clogging the firing pin and primer frags...

I shoot the 208gr Amax in 1/12 308 barrels.

100 yards, 10 shots. Around .65" center-to-center.

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1120 yards. Needed a couple windage adjustments to get on steel. The square in the middle is 5x5 inches.

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MM, Still slinging the heavies I see! Great work on the topic and stretching the old workhorse out. Are you still shooting the 06 as well?

Mark, yes still shooting the 30-06 too.

Some of the newer stuff looks fantastic, but I just don't have the desire to re-tool every time something new comes along.

Shane

A 12 twist 30 cal barrel should stabilize 180 gr just fine. The rule of thumb is you just want to stabilize the bullet but not over stabilize for smallest dispersion's. It should work on a 190 matchking bullet at least in warm weather. Shooting in the dead of winter may be a bit tricky.
I have a 13.8 twist barrel that loves 168s but not 173s.

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Originally Posted by geoff3

Hello I have a Remington 700 L/A 308 with Douglas 1/10 24 inch barrel it likes the heavier bullets 175, 190 grain out 400 yards Remington 700 AAC-SD S/A Tactical Rifling 1/10 20 inch likes 175 out 400 yards the range ,geoff3

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So please clarify, you have a Rem700 LA that was rebarreled in 308? I was under the impression that was not a thang, wouldn't feed reliably. I ask because I have a newly gifted LA pre 64 action that I could custom build. Don't know if custom builds are still viable in pre 64's, or just buy what you want with new DD Delta 5, Tikka's or Bergara.

And I need a new rifle like a fish needs a bicycle. But that's not the point. A new 6.5 PRC couldn't suck.

PB

I just ordered a PRC barrel for my Big Horn. Looking forward to it.

Long action .308s are a thing but if it were me I’d pick something like a 6.5-284 or .280 AI.


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Are there any tips , tricks to building the LA 308's? Any watch outs? What about a LA 6.5 PRC ?

I'm not smart enough to get my hands around 6.5-284 or 280 A.I. and I like to augment my handloads ( I say My which means Marks) with factory ammo. Wouldn't those be pricey factory cartridges to buy for?

Thanks for the feedback.

PB

The biggest tip for making .308 work is using the right magazine system. The original army m24s were LA .308s and they weren’t super reliable from talking to guys I know that ran them.

I know people have been doing the PRCs in a LA, which is a magnum bolt head and would require a magnum follower or magazine.

Myself, it would depend on what you want to do with the rifle. If you wanted an awesome hunting rifle round, .280 AI all the way. 160 gr AB long range is an awesome bullet for killing and super accurate. I did elk load development with my old one and shot 2”-3” groups at 650 yards with it. If you want to load, it is a factory round now so you can buy brass and load, or you can fire .280 Remington in the chamber and fireform brass. It’s kind of a two-fold advantage, perfect brass to your chamber and cheap ammo for playing around.

The 6.5-284 is another awesome round. You won’t get the advantage of a parent round interchangeable in your chamber but it is basically a 6.5 PRC ballistically with standard bolt head and long action.

Since your pre-64 is a controlled round feed, I wouldn’t go jacking with opening up the bolt. You can run .308 in it just fine I’d imagine.

Or another round to think of is 6.5x55 for cheap (relatively) Lapua brass and similar velocity to 6.5-284, perhaps just a bit less. You could still shoot affordable ammmunition through it, too.

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Thanks man, I really appreciate it.

PB

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Originally Posted by Pappabear

Thanks man, I really appreciate it.

PB

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No prob


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Some long action bolt guns will feed 308 just fine and some won't. I have one that will feed from right side of mag just fine but from the left side it won't. Guess you could say if your rifle comes with a mag designed to feed 30.06 stay with calibers in that length if you rebarrel it like 270 Win, 338/06 and if you have short mag equipped for 308 stay with 7/08, 260, 243 etc. Makes for less cursing haha.