How Effective is the .44 Magnum?

I'm a little confused when it comes to the effectiveness of the .44 Mag. I've read accounts from hunters saying the lighter, higher velocity loads such as the 180gr. variety liquifying internals. On the other hand I read material stating that the velocity from handguns including the .357 and .44 Magnum does not aid in incapacitation or the destruction of tissue.

I understand that a bigger, faster bullet will usually be more effective than a smaller, slower one but when comparing say a 9mm Glock to a .44 Desert Eagle is there a significant difference in damage?

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Originally Posted by KCabbage

I'm a little confused when it comes to the effectiveness of the .44 Mag. I've read accounts from hunters saying the lighter, higher velocity loads such as the 180gr. variety liquifying internals. On the other hand I read material stating that the velocity from handguns including the .357 and .44 Magnum does not aid in incapacitation or the destruction of tissue.

I understand that a bigger, faster bullet will usually be more effective than a smaller, slower one but when comparing say a 9mm Glock to a .44 Desert Eagle is there a significant difference in damage?

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Most people will tell you that you need to be above 2000 fps to expect the temporary cavity to have any meaningful effect. Permanent crush cavity is what you're relying on below 2000 fps. If I'm hunting large game, I want a heavy bullet that will pass completly through if possible. I hunt with the Nosler 250gr Partition Gold. I think it gives the best combination of penetration and expansion.

http://www.mannythemovieguy.com/images/dirtyharry.jpg

I do not think anyone has ever stated that it was an underpowered handgun round...

B

For hunting deer size game you don't need a high velocity round that will "liquefy internals." Look at how a modern bow hunting arrow works on deer. It is a slow moving projectile that passes completely through, makes a wide damaging wound channel and leaves TWO holes for the blood to flow out so the animal will expire quickly. I hunt a lot with a Ruger Blackhawk Hunter in 44mag and have tried several different bullet brands and weights. The heaver bullet weights, say around 240 – 300 grains, will pass through more reliably than the lighter bullets. Shot placement and a good wound channel is the key so find a heavy bullet that will shoot accurately in your gun and expands reliably.

.44 Mag is a caliber that is in the transitional range between service caliber handgun loads with minimal stretch effects and rifle calibers with substantial TC damage, as in some cases .44 Mag generates a sufficiently large temporary cavity to damage susceptible inelastic tissues. Hopefully you have read: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19930. As noted, my .44 Mag general purpose load of choice is the Hornady 300 gr XTP. Another transitional caliber where TC is beginning to be a significant mechanism of wounding is the .30 Carbine when using good quality expanding ammunition like the Barnes 110 gr XPB, Rem 110 gr JSP, and Speer 110 gr Gold Dot.

I have actually read that and really appreciate you putting that together.

Which types of loads are more likely to exhibit this TC damage? Is the additional damage worth the blast of the .44?

I was thinking along the lines of light and fast with penetration in the 12-15" range which brings me to the Hornady 180gr. XTP at 1500+ FPS. This is to be used as a HD weapon so i'd like something that doesn't penetrate 20"+ yet remains as effective as possible.

Thanks

Carbine or pistol; what barrel length?

.44 Mag in a RDS equipped 16" lever carbine is quite effective at stopping anything in the lower 48 states...

Ah yes, sorry. 6" Desert Eagle pistol.

Although not my type, I have been very tempted to pick up a good lever action. Is there one in particular you recommend?

The Marlin 1894 16" works well.

From a pistol, the Hornady 300 gr, 240gr, and 180 gr XTP's are all outstanding and would be my first choices; the Rem 275 gr Core-Lokt works well, as does the Win 210 gr Silvertip (although it is flashy).

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Originally Posted by DocGKR

The Marlin 1894 16" works well.

From a pistol, the Hornady 300 gr, 240gr, and 180 gr XTP's are all outstanding and would be my first choices; the Rem 275 gr Core-Lokt works well, as does the Win 210 gr Silvertip (although it is flashy).

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Please forgive me for being a pest here but in your opinion are these loads, the 180gr. especially, worth the extra blast?

Does the FTX flex tip bullet offer any advantages in a pistol load? I am looking for performance on the lowest end of the velocity spectrum.

What load you select all depends on what you are trying to do; personally, I choose a .44 Mag over a service pistol when I think I might need greater penetration on a large, dangerous animal--the 300 gr XTP works great for this.

We have not tested the FTX Flex Tip.

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Originally Posted by KCabbage

Ah yes, sorry. 6" Desert Eagle pistol.

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Nobody is going to comment on the OP's poor choice of a .44 Magnum Desert Eagle as a home defense firearm?

Even from strictly the terminal ballistics standpoint, .44 Magnum isn't the preferred round to toss across your living room in the dark.

Throw in the five pound gas-operated jam-cannon with wobbly magazines and you're looking at a recipe for disaster.

I won't bother including Box of Truth links showing drywall penetration. I assume we have Experts (TM) here for that.

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Originally Posted by StrikeFace

Nobody is going to comment on the OP's poor choice of a .44 Magnum Desert Eagle as a home defense firearm?

Even from strictly the terminal ballistics standpoint, .44 Magnum isn't the preferred round to toss across your living room in the dark.

Throw in the five pound gas-operated jam-cannon with wobbly magazines and you're looking at a recipe for disaster.

I won't bother including Box of Truth links showing drywall penetration. I assume we have Experts (TM) here for that.

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We do have experts here for that.

The OP asked a Terminal Ballistic question in the Terminal Ballistic Information section. He did not ask for input on his firearm selection.

The Desert Eagle is a pretty poor choice for any endeavor...

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Originally Posted by Aray

The OP asked a Terminal Ballistic question in the Terminal Ballistic Information section. He did not ask for input on his firearm selection.

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^that

I am looking into alternatives to a 300 whisper bolt action.

It seems as though the 300gr XTP 44 mag would trump any whisper load out to practical limits of 100-150 yds with almost identical drop yet with reliable expansion, more energy, and cheaper ammo.

Do you think the XTP would expand reliably as long as it is above 900fps? Hornady's recommended muzzle velocity range is 700 to 1500 fps listed on their website:

http://www.hornady.com/bullets

Sure is some sour taste in here for the Eagle. Other than the face slapping blast from one of these I can't see what's so wrong. This weapon is not my go to gun. It's a pistol I like shooting and would like to keep it loaded as well.

Both of the Mark VII's i've owned have been extrememly reliable with one hand, two, weak grip. ect. Controlled, tightly grouped rapid fire is made possible with two hands. Capacity the same as a full size 1911. Loads that can be tailored with penetration from eleven to twently plus inches.

Am I naive in thinking the extra velocity would give me an edge. Heck, in the end it doesn't even matter. In the past month i've visited the dentist more than I ever have in my life. The root canal and future crown i'm having done tipped the scales and has pretty much forced me to let this eagle fly.

Having my FFL/Smith repolish and reblue for a low-low price and it's making daddy some money. I hope to have another in the future.

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Originally Posted by DocGKR

.44 Mag is a caliber that is in the transitional range between service caliber handgun loads with minimal stretch effects and rifle calibers with substantial TC damage, as in some cases .44 Mag generates a sufficiently large temporary cavity to damage susceptible inelastic tissues. Hopefully you have read: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19930. As noted, my .44 Mag general purpose load of choice is the Hornady 300 gr XTP. Another transitional caliber where TC is beginning to be a significant mechanism of wounding is the .30 Carbine when using good quality expanding ammunition like the Barnes 110 gr XPB, Rem 110 gr JSP, and Speer 110 gr Gold Dot.

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Thanks for the information I did not know that. Back before I got my my 5 shot Hamilton Bowen for bear defense I did some amateur testing with my 44 smith using 300 grain XTP handloads. The bullets always expanded nicely and went deep.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g2...vers/Bowen.jpg

For trail defense against brown bear, would the 300 gr XTP be sufficient or should hard cast loads be used? 5" barreled .44 mag Revolver. I only have this one pistol up here and have been carrying 305 gr. underwood hard cast on the trails and 240 gr XTP in the city. Would be nice to maybe just use the 300gr XTP for everything (even though I am yet to find it for sale, unlike the 240). We wear a lot of clothes so EDC'ing the N-frame isn't hard, but I do plan to get a more appropriate 9mm for in-town EDC at some point.

No.

There is no handgun round that liquifies internals. .44 mag is no more effective on bad guys than any other service-grade caliber. They all make holes that cause death by exsanguination. 9mm does the same thing. Hit the vitals, they croak. Miss the vitals, they don't.

Different story with 1000 pound brown bears. There, you need much more penetration to get to the vitals.

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Originally Posted by Uni-Vibe

No.

There is no handgun round that liquifies internals. .44 mag is no more effective on bad guys than any other service-grade caliber. They all make holes that cause death by exsanguination. 9mm does the same thing. Hit the vitals, they croak. Miss the vitals, they don't.

Different story with 1000 pound brown bears. There, you need much more penetration to get to the vitals.

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Yes I know, I'm not claiming that it's "more effective on bad guys than any other service grade caliber", but in a situation where you are potentially facing both threats (or have one gun like me, I can't afford to immediately buy a whole arsenal having just moved to AK) would you rather have a 9mm when facing a brown bear or have the .44 magnum when facing an armed human?

I realize .44 is bad for a gunfight against armed attackers compared to 9mm in the same way that 7.62x51 is usually worse than 5.56x45. Hell, large brown bears have been killed up here with 5.45x39 and 9mm.

https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2013...ar-with-ak-74/
https://www.americanhunter.org/artic...th-9mm-pistol/

This is a false choice.

For bad guys, load 44 spl. This is a 240 grain bullet at about 800 fps. It's a 45 ACP equivalent. I handload, so I'd load a 240 grain hardcast swc at about 900 or 1000 fps.

For large bears, push that same bullet to around 1300, or use a factory equivalent.

The 300gr XTP or 225gr Barnes were the best all purpose loads. The 240gr XTP was the acceptable second place.

I think you are fine just running the 240gr, or switch to the Barnes if it's available for the lower recoil. I think your choice should weigh your percieved threat vs ability to shoot the heavy hard cast well.

44 is most likely more effective then 22lr.

Sent from my moto e5 (XT1920DL) using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by jesuvuah

44 is most likely more effective then 22lr.

Sent from my moto e5 (XT1920DL) using Tapatalk

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Yes
The small calibers lack penetration to get to the vitals.

But a .44 mag is no more effective than 9mm, because both have similar penetration in people.

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Originally Posted by DocGKR

.44 Mag is a caliber that is in the transitional range between service caliber handgun loads with minimal stretch effects and rifle calibers with substantial TC damage, as in some cases .44 Mag generates a sufficiently large temporary cavity to damage susceptible inelastic tissues. Hopefully you have read: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19930. As noted, my .44 Mag general purpose load of choice is the Hornady 300 gr XTP. Another transitional caliber where TC is beginning to be a significant mechanism of wounding is the .30 Carbine when using good quality expanding ammunition like the Barnes 110 gr XPB, Rem 110 gr JSP, and Speer 110 gr Gold Dot.

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This must be some secret squirrel stuff. I no have permission to view thread...

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Originally Posted by DocGKR

Carbine or pistol; what barrel length?

.44 Mag in a RDS equipped 16" lever carbine is quite effective at stopping anything in the lower 48 states...

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This is very similar to what I have done to build a combat cowboy carbine...
I had a 24" rifle cut to 17".

https://i.imgur.com/ovTyVEq.jpg

I would feel confident facing any bad guy or any beast on the continent with it.

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Originally Posted by daddyusmaximus

This must be some secret squirrel stuff. I no have permission to view thread...

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What? Geez, I bet you don't know the secret handshake either.:rolleyes:

Actually, the reason you can't use the link is just because it is so old. That quote is from a 2011 post near the beginning of this thread.

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Originally Posted by nincomp

What? Geez, I bet you don't know the secret handshake either.:rolleyes:

Actually, the reason you can't use the link is just because it is so old. That quote is from a 2011 post near the beginning of this thread.

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Most old posts show up fine. I don't remember the details, but I think it has to do with a disagreement between DocGKR and the management of this board. Most, if not all of DocGKR's data is gone.

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Originally Posted by AKDoug

Most old posts show up fine. I don't remember the details, but I think it has to do with a disagreement between DocGKR and the management of this board. Most, if not all of DocGKR's data is gone.

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Thanks. It has been a number of years since I have been on this forum. The quote I referenced was from 2011 and when I looked under DocGKR's profile, the most recent post listed was from 2010. Something seemed screwey, but I didn't know what.