Oops. IG already took the trash out.
Printable View
Oops. IG already took the trash out.
You didn't say "gas" in the traditional sense. You said "overgassed". The ones that are truly overgassed are the ones like BM, DPMS, and others that need a large port just to function.
I also never said a person wouldn't get some gas in their face. Anyone with 5 minutes of trigger time on a suppressed weapon knows this.
Before Gunz eats you alive I think you should know he wasn't saying a normal gas port buffer weight and spring on a shorty doesn't affect anything. He said a PROPERLY BUILT SUPPRESSED AR doesn't need them the switch block is for those who go suppressed and unsuppressed regularly. JP caters to gamers not the defensive crowd so there stuff needs to be looked at a bit differently. And before you go running you're mouth again check who you're talking to first. Gunz has been there, done that and has the ****ing T-shirt to prove it. He's a hell of an experienced armorer and has done allot personally with suppressed SBR's. :rolleyes:
Just to contribute my experience:
I have a 10.3" with a small gas port and an A5 buffer system. The gas port is so small it will only cycle unsuppressed with hot hot hot XM193 ammo.
I also run my suppressor on a run of the mill 12.5" BCM Upper and an H2 buffer.
I can say without hesitation that while the difference in felt recoil is apparent, and there is a difference in where shell casings eject...I do not feel as if the 12.5" is less pleasant to shoot than the 10.3" nor is there any difference in reliability.
Both have run several hundred rounds with only a light coat of CLP applied weeks earlier after a regular cleaning.
I don't believe I want to complicate things with an adjustable block if I don't have to. Simple is better for me. The 762SD actually doesn't toss a ton of gas back in my face; probably a combination of the large volume and overbore.
Didn't mean to start trouble. Some folks just can't play nice I guess.
Lube. If of top pedigree, it will run.
All the other things are trying to get particular feel/performance characteristics, not necessarily to make it run.
I have an M16 with Noveske 12.5" W/switch block. I run it with a Gemtech HALO and have run several classes. (read 2500 rds ea class) It runs fine with or without the SB in "S" mode. I keep it well lubed with Slip 2000. runs 100% and i don't clean during the class.
I also have a 10.5" Noveske AR15 W/O SB, that I also run W/ the HALO. Have run classes with it as well (2500 rds ea class). Runs 100% lubed well W/ Slip 2000.
generally speaking with a quality rifle, in good repair, your largest changing factor is mags and ammo.
Use quality ammo. Keep it well lubed with any of the quality lubes available today and go forth an conquer !
Until that day,
Darkop
IG. Noodles went about it the wrong way, but he was (kinda) right.
Gas really is the problem.
However, I'm starting to wonder weather or not switchblock type gas blocks are a stop gap measure.
For 50/50 guns though, it probably is the best option.
However, you're right about the ''overgassed'' thing.
Yea... I didn't think it was wrong to use the term overgassed when talking about any DI gun that adds a silencer and sees increased pressure at the port and more importantly blowback through the barrel. If it wasn't overgassed before the silencer ("a properly built SBR"), add a silencer, and you ARE overgassed now.
I could have put it nicer by asking if it wasn't needed, why would LaRue, Noveske, Innovative Arms, and almost every piston maker out there have an adjustable gas systems? The first three especially are specifically for DI ARs. If all you need is lube, why would these companies invest the time and money into these systems? Is it because the cyclic rate increased when suppressed, which causes improper dwell time, a higher chance of either magazine or action related malfunctions, allows gas to slip out the receiver into your eyes, is louder to the shooter, and adds more recoil?
Agreed though, on a 50/50 gun it is the probably best option but not the most ideal. It would be great to run 100% suppressed and have the gas regulated for that, but then the silencer is an integral part of the weapon which is not a great idea.
The OP talks about running a suppressed SBR at a class all day. I took that to assume he'd ALSO like to be able to see out of both eyes constantly.... No?
Now, I've had time on plenty spr type guns with no adjustable regulator. It's fine. I don't feel like I'm coating my eyes with sulfur. For that, or for the range, or for just plinking, I don't feel a switchblock or etc is needed. But if I were going to plan on 1000+ rounds in a day or two, I would strongly push for the correct gas amount for that weapon suppressed no matter how you get there. That's my suggestion to the OP.
Sorry if I rubbed anyone the wrong way, I'll definitely try to phrase things in a softer manner.
Overgassed only becomes a relevant phenomenon when taking a barrel engineered to still cycle when fed crap underpowered .223 stuff, upping the backpressure with a can, and then feeding it proper spec ammo.
The adjustable setups make sense for part-time suppressed items where the user would prefer to have an adjustable setting to choke some of the gas when running suppressed, and are willing to sacrifice some of the lightness and simplicity to get there.
Even that method, or running a tuned suppressed-only SBR is still going to have gas coming back in your face - it's a fact of the platform that especially in the SBR silhoettes that there still needs to be a considerable gas impluse in order to still cycle the bolt when the action has gotten dirty.
Starting off with a properly specced rifle simply means that even after adding a can, the gas impulse/dwell time/extraction/bolt carrier speed is still within the operational envelope when running good ammo, whereas there simply isn't a way to engineer a crap rifle into magically not sucking in the most demanding configuration possible.