Down to a final decision Between the LMT CQB MRP 16 and the KAC SR15 e. Have read a lot about each rifle and was curious about owner comments who have owned both. Price range is about the same. LMT 1600 and the KAC 1650.
Thanks!
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Down to a final decision Between the LMT CQB MRP 16 and the KAC SR15 e. Have read a lot about each rifle and was curious about owner comments who have owned both. Price range is about the same. LMT 1600 and the KAC 1650.
Thanks!
What do you plan on using the rifle for? How many other carbines do you own?
This is my first Ar15. Have put money away the past year to buy a good quality weapon. Will be used for target competition (local), hunting and self defense.
Not sure how important this is to you, but KAC has a few proprietary parts not compatible with other ARs.
KAC it's the pinnacle of the AR DI system....buy the best the US has to offer.
All of KAC is great, with the exception of the front sight. Mine wobbled and would throw off POA. I ended up throwing a Troy on it. After almost two years, the button holding the front sight on fell off. The roll pin for it likely fell out / broke and I lost the button on the range. I e-mailed KAC and they sent me out a replacement and it took three weeks to get here.
Not happy, I wanted to switch rails but didn't want to pay $300 for the URX 3.1 then $300 for the wrench. So I traded it for an MRP CQB. I'm very happy with my LMT sights. :p But seriously, the LMT has a bit more recoil and is a little heavier. Nothing I can't deal with or aren't willing to deal with. Haven't had the money yet but will be buying a piston kit for it and 300 blackout barrel. Gotta love quick change barrels.
The reason I only shoot LMT, and KAC rifles these days is largely in part due to the "controversial" proprietary parts or features of them fwiw.
If I were the OP I'd pass on both of the options listed, and maybe look into a Karl Stoner SR-MRP:p
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/a...C02174-3-1.jpg
In all seriousness you can't go wrong with either one of those rifles, I just hold the belief that your at the very cutting edge of AR evolution when you combine an IWS lower with a MRP top. The unmatched versatility, and modularity of this combo yields a gift that keeps on giving. It's the one AR you can't grow out of.
I'd go with the new MRP, with the slick sides. Almost everything I use for work and play gets mounted on the top (caliber dependent). Personally I'd get the longer rail (if they make a slick version of that), rather than the CQB, because I like putting my hand farther.
Considering the cost to put these guns together, the 5.56 versions of either are not outlandishly priced at all. However, the KAC is far more proud of their 7.62 guns than they have justification. Before anyone asks, I've spent a lot of time with a KAC 7.62 in my hands.
The MRP is a much more versatile upper. If I didn't have numerous ARs when the MRP came out, I would have gotten that as my first, and I would LIKELY have never built more. I think it would be awesome for a first gun, as you could easily swap calibers, steel type, barrel length, DI/piston. It's a very cool system.
If I was starting over, all I would buy are the CQB/MRP platforms. It's so simple that it's ingenious. Technically speaking the barrel and gas tube are the only parts "proprietary" to the platform but there is a company that can convert a standard barrel to the MRP style without much trouble. Want to go from 10.5" to 16" no problem? Want to go from DI to piston no problem, want to go from 5.56 to 6.8 to 300blk to 204 etc.. no problem. I only wish I thought of it....
Cool to see real face shooters digging the platform, you or any of your partners ever use one in harms way?
I know Army SF have used some MRP CQB 12"s in action.
If you read between the lines, the British SAS are using MWSs with 13.5" barrels, suppressors, and a F/A lower.
And in the recent LM8 Combat Arms article...
"Company representatives won't discuss or confirm, but I've been informed that this project was initiated at the request of an undisclosed Special Forces unit who liked the LMT, but wanted to see it shed some unnecessary weight, feature a slimmer forearm and enable versatility for a user to attach only the rail space he needs on a given mission."
Which Army SF unit are you referring to? Are you referencing a picture you saw on militaryphotos or something where an "SF guy" was shooting an MRP? Was it a trial of a sample of say 6 or 12 units that a unit purchased to try out, or did one or two guys in SF bring their own uppers overseas? As we've seen in this (shooting) industry- especially in the last 10 years- most of these types of claims and articles are BS. Some guy calls a company and says, "I'm from organization XYZ, can I get military discount?" All of a sudden, "secret members of XYZ, ZYX, and YZX are using this product...because it's the best!"
Furthermore, "Special Forces" is one of the most inappropriately used terms regarding the military focused journalism as well as the arms industry's marketing. Everyone who isn't a clerk is "Special Forces" in the press. Go to barns an noble, and you'll surely find some stupid ass book with a title like, "WEAPONS AND TACTICS AND VEHICLES AND INFIL METHODS AND UNIFORMS AND BOOTS AND SUNGLASSES AND HEROS OF SPECIAL FORCES" In said book and all of it's similarly titled abortions there will be chapters on SEALs, Marines, and Paras from the 82d ABN DIV. While these entities are full of great guys, they are not Special Forces. SEALs and a tiny percentage of Marines fall under the umbrella of Special Operations. Special Operations does not equal Special Forces.
I'm not saying that was you posted is incorrect, but unless there is documentation or firsthand accounts, usually stuff like this on the interwebs is incorrectly based on what I wrote above.
Let me first say that I don't base my gear/gun purchases in the least off of what the SF community is either actually using, or rumored to be using. I don't foresee myself ever owning a HK416/417s, or SCAR L/Hs. Obviously I'm no expert of SF weapon procurement, nor do I try to be.
In regards to the MRP CQBs in use....I've learned about this from a number of different sources, however I'll base my above reply off my best source which is straight from LMT.
I didn't pry for very much detail other than a confirmation that MRP CQB 12" piston uppers have seen use by SF in action.
My apologies on derailing this thread.
And... your point is? Please don't waste our time with uninformed, sniper comments.
This is possibly the most overblown "criticism" of the SR15 ever discussed. The proprietary parts are the bolt, which will far outlast the standard bolt and the gas tube, which will last the life of the barrel. Additionally, KAC recently announced price reductions for the E3 bolt kits, making spares an affordable reality for the average shooter. (even though you will likely replace the barrel before the bolt)
Proprietary is only a concern when dealing with a company that is not likely to be in existence in the future or is constantly changing designs due to issues with the original design. KAC exhibits neither of these traits. The E3 design is well proven to be extremely durable and very shootable. I've been running an SR15 since the very first rifles were made available for commercial sale & it remains my preferred AR type. Feed it good ammo and never look back.
If choosing between the mrp & SR15, you can't loose. Both are great rifles, but I might give an edge to the SR15 due to its lighter weight.
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Sorry, it was not my intention to make sniper comments.
In fact I do own a few KAC parts and I have no doubt in their quality.
I made the comment only to say that the bolt will not fit in other ARs. It wasn't a "criticism." But could be a consideration since they are more expensive. I had not heard of the recent announcement, but that's good news.
The new pricing was definitely welcome news. No details yet on the reduced pricing structure, only that it was in the works. I've never felt the need for a backup E3 bolt, but will probably pick one up anyway if the price is right.
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I have both an MRP and an SR-15. About 5k thru each. Get the SR-15. Just my 0.02. Happy shooting.
+ 1 for the sr 15. I would get the new mod 1.
^^Duly noted....didn't realize I was making absolute statements
Now, if you or anyone else wishes to dispute what little I wrote in the reply above....please feel free to correct me.
Both nice guns, I really like both companies products. I would give the edge to KAC due to weight and recoil. There are many other factors at play, but thats my thought.
Let's not forget LMT makes many of the parts KAC uses.
Its like arguing which high quality firearms manufacturer is higher quality. Just different flavors of the same drink.
The simple fact is, just because you buy something that has a company name on it, don't assume that company made it. Everyone is in bed with everyone else. This isn't a bad thing, as the rifles that are produced are some of the highest quality ever.
I can't speak for the KAC personally since I have never fired or held the SR15. I have shot several friends LMTs and I was very pleased from how they handled, to the craftsmanship they are built with. Now I just ordered my MRP piston rifle just a few weeks ago for a hell of a deal well under their MSRP, just 160 more than their regular MRP. I can't wait to get home and see how well mine shoots. Like other members have said both are excellent weapons, what sold me on the LMT was the ability to swap out barrels or go back to a DI system with the simple removal of two bolts. I wanted a high end ar with not just a upgrade here and there, but a truly different way of thinking that sets it apart from the other brands.
I dont know what one I would pick. I own an MRP and I love it but, the long slim rail on the KAC looks nice. I think the only regret I have at all about my MRP is I wish I had goten the rifle length.
I like the fact that my MRP is a one piece upper it feels real solid and I can swap the operating system and caliber real quick. It uses a standard BCG.
Oh and LMT gave me a military discount, I dont know if KAC does that.
Jon
Very new/old guy here - after watching all the AR's fly off the dealer shelves, I went with an LMT, although the KAC felt wonderful, when I closed my eyes & handled them all (including Noveske, Colt, LWRC & DD - didn't even bother with BM, DPMS, RR etc.), the LMT felt like I was holding a women in my arms, so there was no contest.
I did really like the light weight of the KAC alot, but I'm going to be doing more BR shooting than anything else, so the solid feel of the LMT was perfect for me.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7130/6...80f8385f_b.jpg
1. I really like the mono rail on the MRP. I know it's not likely the URX will come loose, but it can, and I don't like that. I also like how narrow the standard MRP rail is. I personally don't need it to be any smaller. Want a slick rail? Well you can get an MRP like that now too.
2. I like the versatility the MRP platform offers. I don't swap barrels around, but if I ever burn one out then it's a two minute fix...and if I ever feel like running a different barrel length, then again, it's a two minute job. For example; if I want to take my SBR MRP out of state and don't feel like foolin with paperwork...then I can just throw on a 16" barrel and go.
Also, like said before...I have number of different calibers available to me on the MRP platform should I feel like using one of them. I can buy or create any carbine barrel length I want...10.5", 11.5", 12.5", 14.5", 16", or could run a 16" or 14.5" mid-length barrel....and can have it in piston or DI.
3. I can replace to bolt on an MRP for $60. I can replace the barrel on the MRP for about $300.
I guess I personally prefer the MRP because it can pretty much morph into any configuration I would ever want...and it's quickly and easily 100% serviceable by ME.
All that said, I believe you'd be very happy with either! I think it's impossible to say one is better than the other...they are just different flavors of the best.
:D
I really like my MRP because it just feels so solid and with the added bonus of being extremely modular.
I never owned a SR-15 complete rifle but I have owned a URX2 upper it was a nice lightweight low recoiling rifle with the extended midlength gas system. I sold it a couple of months ago and bought a Colt 6920.
I'm waiting for KAC to start shipping their uppers with the URX3 rifle length rails since I really want a longer slimmer profile handgaurd. I wasn't willing to pay the cost that they wanted for a barrel nut wrench to change it myself or willing ship it out. With the added cost I decided to sell wait and buy new.
I think $250 - $300 for the URX wrench that is worthless for anything else is retarded.
At least LMT supplies a torque-wrench with their MRP...albeit a crappy one. Still, it gets the job done, and you can still buy a better one that can be used for other things for less than $250.
IMHO, the URX should not be user installed. The ONLY reports I've ever seen of one coming loose were from end user or aftermarket installs. If someone wants a different rail, there are several qualified armorers that will do the work for reasonable cost.
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Retired2816
I apologize for hijacking your thread.
Hate to say it you were right. :nono:
You know how to find me.
I'll take my BM and go sit in the corner.
retired1383
There was a member on the forums, I believe, that took an MRP 12" to Iraq or Afghanistan and had some serious issues, then switched back to his issued upper. That's all I've ever read on the subject. The only reason I even remember is because I was surprised it failed so quickly and assumed there was a defect. Don't have any clue who he was. This may have been on Lightfighter actually.
Anyway, I've owned both. I think both are great rifles. If I was going for accuracy, I'd go MRP. If I was going to be running a lot of drills, carrying it, etc., I'd go for the sr15, maybe.
I don't know, I own BCM, standard LMT 10.5", Colt and Noveske now. The MRP is one solid system. I had some issues with the URX II's, both of them, so I don't think I'd care much for the URX III either.
Obviously if you want to swap barrels/calibers, the MRP is the way to go. I have to say though, owning the MRP and 2 SCARs, I've never swapped a barrel, though I did think about it once.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help. If its bench rest, the new SR15 LR (I think - the one with the stainless barrel) or the MRP would be options I'd look at, not the standard SR15.
For any fellow or soon to be fellow LMT MRP owners out there...
REI is currently doing their 20% off any 1 item member sale (until 4/15).. They sell the Effetto Mariposa torque wrench kit for $185 everyday, which is the best price anyway... But.. Knock 20% off of that.. And free shipping, and it's a fantastic federal for a really quality piece of kit for anyone, but especially MRP owners.
Link: http://www.rei.com/product/823101/ef...que-wrench-kit
Back on topic... I would get (and did get) the MRP over the KAC.