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I have the opportunity to buy a full 4x8 sheet of AR plate at work. I am wondering how thick would be the minimum for 5.56 rounds - lead only, 55-77gr.
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If this is in the wrong section, please relocate.
I have the opportunity to buy a full 4x8 sheet of AR plate at work. I am wondering how thick would be the minimum for 5.56 rounds - lead only, 55-77gr.
I have mad quite a few of them 1/4 to 3/8 should be enough as long as you are using AR500 steel. If not AR500 then it will not last very long.
Good question. I had been wondering the same thing myself. So have my neighbors.
I've been running 3/8" AR 500 at 50 yards and out with no issues. I have a feeling they will last for quite some time...
As long as we are on this topic. Are those self healing targets worth a crap?
1/4" will last a long time at 200 yards and beyond.
At 100 yards it'll last pretty long if you stay off of XM193. XM193 wears out armor quick.
3/8 for any kind of consistent shooting inside of 100. XM193 will break 3/8 armor like a hole puncher at 50 yards and in if the plates aren't angled off of perpendicular.
well hell! i guess allll xm193 will be for punching paper.
whats a good bulk ammo to buy for steel?
1/4" is nice at 600 yards and beyond. 3/8 just hardly moves or rings.
We shoot them much closer than that. And the slanted steel we'll shot as clost as 10 yards.
The heavier the bullet, the better. But stuff like PMC bronze which is mild isn't too bad. XM193 is fine beyond 100 because a 55 grain bullet sheds velocity very quickly.
The idea is low velocity. That's why even M855 is easier on AR500 plate than XM193 inside of 100.
Mostly this. I have been able to shoot XM193 at 50 (AR500) and it will pit worse than any other ammo. I try to use low power ammo on steel for plinking.
3/8 AR500 will last pretty long. Shootsteel.com has good prices and you can turn the target around when it pits too bad on one side opposed to some targets that you have the mount on the back so you can only use one side.
I'll try and get a few pics of the targets we use. We got a deal at our club, (as in free) on some old Level III steel and coated steel armor plates. At 50-yards, the thicker plates, (I'm guessing 1/4" until I measure) have been hit thousands of times with everything 5.56 and .308 - even some odd 7.62x54r and hunting rounds and have not been penetrated. A thinner body armor plate took 7 hits of XM193 to penetrate, but a newer 'coated' thin performs like the older heavy plate and had no rounds through. We do have some 1/4" AR500 plate that we have yet to cut. We hang the plates on a bracket which angles the plate slightly, (about 8º) and while I'm no engineer, I think it helps with the longevity of the steel...ETA: Like Markm - we shoot them at close range - out to 200-yards
3/8" will be longest lasting as stated.
If its AR steel it's good to go. I bought "AR500" steel off ebay and it blows.... It's 1/2" and at 100 yds tula's blow holes straight through it...
FNG here. YouTube of AR500 standing up to .50 cal. Seems relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJdz8...e_gdata_player
Wanted to give some clarification on my "default to 3/8" comment:
If you are going to be shooting within 100 meters, the issue is not bullet penetration, but front face cratering/chipping. Dents of greater than 1/16 can affect spall pattern, resulting in erratic spall, which leads to more chunks of metal being bounced back uprange.
Having a forward cant of 30 degrees helps greatly in this regard.
Most of my steel use is from 25 to 200 meters, with a bit at longer range, and I have to bring my own for that envelope as most places get cheap steel that gets torn up at close range or does not sit at an acceptable angle for closer work with rifle calibers.
I have AR500 steel IPSC targets on a 30 degree angle. They are 3/8 in. thick and I have shot them from as close as 6 feet (testing) with both 5.56 and 7.62x51 and they stand up perfectly to the abuse.
If you are using mild steel instead of AR500 steel, it will get pockmarked no matter how thick it is.
3/8" at a 30 degree angle gives you an effective thickness of about 1/2".
7.62 ball ammo is nothing for AR500. 5.56 is much more abusive. I can shoot AR450 with 7.62 and it looks like a 45 acp splatter mark.... again.. all about the velocity.
Even our 3/8" slanted gongs will only take so many hits of XM193 at short ranges before perforations start occuring.
Here is a photo I recently took of a new 3/8" AR 500 steel plate shot with XM193 at 50 yards. In the upper right part of the photo is a pock mark painted over that shows the depth of the pock mark. It will make tiny pock marks, but that’s it. It will last a long time. I hang it from a shepherds hook and use the other side for handguns.
http://www.pbase.com/wingspar/image/...8/original.jpg
You want to keep your gongs nice and smooth like this one! :p
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/b.../hudson107.jpg
Now that's pretty! :D
Those suckers have seen many years of AR15 abuse. Pieces are starting to fall off of them. :(
193 is worse than 855? Even the green tip with penetrator stuff? And how does 1/2" compare?
Hanging at angle seems to help. I buy whatever steel scrap I can at a local steel supplier for targets. He often has 3/8 and 1/2 scrap pieces.
Have fun
RFA
Yup.
Speed is the name of the game when it comes to steel penetration, unless you step up to a large, heavy penetrator as found in M995. The "penetrator" in M855 is laughable, and really only serves to provide a bit more extra spall to deal with when shooting at steel.
1/2" steel is fine, but heavier than needed and produces even less movement and ring than 3/8".
And all this time I've been avoiding M855... I assume the M193 has higher velocity because of the lighter weight? Obviously I'm not well-read in most ballistics yet. And does the 1/2" have any benefits that make it worth while? Better longevity or more durability at closer range, etc?
The biggest difference that I have seen in steel targets is in manufacturer quality. I trust companies like MGM, Tac-Strike, and Porta-Target, having seen tens if not hundreds of thousands of rounds pushed into them at responsible distances of several calibers. I do not trust random steel distributors' offerings.
Frankly, I have not seen sufficient quantities of 1/2" steel in direct comparison to 1/4" or 3/8" to offer any insight beyond that already given. Once again, longevity is not based on perforation, but rather deformation of the front face, and once the front face is severely pitted the target should be moved to long(ish) range (100 meters or greater), and shot until it crumbles.
It's a physics thing, and your assumptions are correct in this particular case.
Kinetic energy at point of impact is the key.
Both rounds fired on a level line will hit the ground at the same time, M855 significantly farther out, even though M193 got to the 1/3 mark significantly sooner. Velocity & weight factored together equals the amount of force transmitted to the target.
A properly worded search phrase will turn up more than you wanted to know about the subject on these two particular rounds.
3/8" AR is probably the better plan for weight and cost. If I can get a slight dome to the face, it should increase the longevity. Maybe even a little hammer treatment.
I keep hearing this about PMC. I've consistently chronographed Bronze 55grain consistently at 2880 FPS from my 16 inch Noveske. How are we defining "mild"?
Here's a magazine of 55 gr PMC Bronze out of my 11.5 SBR (2450 FPS) from about 35 yards on a 1/2 inch AR500 gong.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vtpGrPpxIEA