Forgive the ignorance but how do the Tango Down vertical foregrip and Magpul angled foregrip compare to each other when used with a carbine.What are the advantages of each over the other and which do you personally prefer?And why?
Thanks in advance.
Printable View
Forgive the ignorance but how do the Tango Down vertical foregrip and Magpul angled foregrip compare to each other when used with a carbine.What are the advantages of each over the other and which do you personally prefer?And why?
Thanks in advance.
Its preference. The best thing to do is try both. I've had Magpul AFG2s and I now use a tango down QD forward grip.
Honestly it's just a personal preference. That's it. Neither has any advantage over the other. Though I have seen vertical grips catch ahold of equipment from time to time.
I've messed with both,one thing for sure I hate a mile long vertical grip.
And yet I'm still not sure about them :confused: I do know I like the AFG from Magpul it just feels "right" I do not however like it mounted all the fuggin' way forward and that crazy grip I see some use.
It's great mounted at the end of a seven inch carbine HG,I'm going to go to a 12 inch rail soon but will stick the AFG in the same place.
One thing I like next to the angle is the fact it lets me get a real grip on the rifle and pull back without sliding,a vertical is the same but feels off-granted I've not had one on a carbine yet sooooo....
Need to try it out to compare.
I agree with what Krull posted above. I've handled rifles with both Afgs and Vfgs and ultimately decided that they aren't necessary or for me to begin with. However, if I were forced to choose between the two an angled for grip as close to the magwell as possible would be my choice. Assuming the rifle in question isn't some 20+" bull barrel of course.
AFG is a concept that attempts to place your support hand in it's "natural" position over the upward canted position of a vertical or "beer can" grip. supposedly this causes less muscle involvement and tension and it reinforces the more modern method of support and the "C-grip" and works better with your support hand extended forward.
I believe this started with shotgunners who required lateral swing control versus target shooters who require vertical stability. you can do the same thing with a handstop or vertical grip as long as you understand the concept...
I prefer a stubby VFG. I like the feel of an AFG ok, but IMO it takes up too much space on the handguard and it can make it difficult to shoot from prone if you're letting the handguard rest on something. It can also be awkward if you have to grip the forearm anywhere other than in that one particular spot. I tried an AFG 2 and took it off my rifle and replaced it with an RVG and I like it much better overall. I grip it in the crook where the RVG meets the rail and loop my thumb over the top of the rail and get the same sure grip pulling the rifle backward into my shoulder. It takes up much less space on the rail, I can still easily grab the handguard elsewhere if necessary, and it can be useful for propping up against something solid to take a more precise shot. I suppose it could be a snag hazard but I haven't had an issue with that yet. If that ever becomes the case then I'll reevaluate.
VFGs (unless talking about the abortion that is the Grip-Pod), are as much of a snag-hazard as an inserted magazine, and are directly under the control of the user (as that's where the hand is going) except when slung, in which case the entire carbine is a snag-hazard.
In all reality, folks would generally be better off if they shot the gun for a few thousand rounds after a class with a credible instructor before adding a VFG or AFG and make a realistic assessment about what they need and what the accessory brings to the table. Because, frankly, neither is needed for two-handed stand-up use (refer to all the guys winning 3-gun and 2-gun competition with neither), both can be detrimental to other positions (think about kneeling and sitting positions), and one is helpful for instances where the support hand can't grip the handguard, can be used to gain support from a vertical or horizontal surface, and can be used to brace against cover for one-handed use. Standing in the middle of a square-bay with targets at 3 meters and spraying bullets like a cow pissing on a flat rock doesn't gain a lot of experience in anything else.
:Bro-hug: for the bovine-based mental image.
No homo....
There may be some advantages of the vertical over the angled, but some of it boils down to personal preference.
I went with an angled grip on my rifle, but my wife prefers vertical.
My next build will probably be vertical.
There are far greater minds at play than mine, but after taking a few courses I came to the conclusion that I wanted freedom on my handguard for my support hand; I didn't want to always attempt a certain location.
I do however like a small handstop (IWC) and have one on a few rifles.
Ultimately it really doesn't matter at all what you use. As long as it won't fall apart on you and won't get in your way, shoot with what is comfortable for you and helps you to employ your carbine most effectively
Awesome post def sig material.
It's funny how people are in the beginning of their gunmance with an AR it's like a towel rack people have to hang shit off of them or fulfill ness is not achieved . Enter me, now all that shit is collecting dust or passed along to someone else who has that bite like a first love. As you said they have a place but it wasn't found until I took a creditable course, before that I had dreams of being Major Alan "Dutch" Schaefer with a 8 inch VFG on the end of my DD.:dirol:
I was involved in a MVA a few years back that broke my left wrist, hand and arm and now I have titanium pins and screws permanently attached to my wrist holding my left hand on, basically..
My left wrist has limited movement that can be difficult to bend and using a vertical forward grip on my AR is a no brainer since I don't have to bend my wrist. Anyway, after I first saw the AFG I thought I'd never be able to use one let alone like it because of my wrist until a friend gave me one to try out. The AFG really surprised and impressed me right off the bat and ended up being more comfortable and ergonomic than I would ever thought. I still use VFG's from time to time but my AFG now gets most of the action when it comes to "tactical" shooting, which they were designed for.
I'm a fairly new AR shooter, so take that for what it's worth. I started with a short vertical. I found I was more naturally grasping the rifle half in front of the grip (base of the palm riding down the vfg), much like if it were an afg, so I swapped to that and am quite happy with it. My hands are fairly small, so I can actually grab the nub at the back in a position much like a vfg if I chose--although admittedly not quite as stable.
So I agree it all seems personal. I think a vfg would be my choice if I just sprayed from the hip, but an afg is comfortable enough for me that it's almost a necessary attachment for me.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 4
I shoot how you do, from what you are describing, and tried the AFG and it didn't make much difference except that it prevented me from using the VFG as it can be used as a force multiplier in various situations. It took some time, but I found the perfect VFG for me. Turned out the be the Magpul RVG.
How do you mean? I've only handled it around the house and at the range--no competitions or scenario-type stuff. Curious to open my opinion/options. I think the RVG is the one I tried, still have it in the closet. I did really like it, just liked the afg slightly better (Magpul's AFG2, I believe-the smaller one) with the flat center piece.
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 4
I used to swear by my AFG, had one on 2 different rifles. I am now going back to a slick foregrip with either a hand stop or small VFG. My PWS has a keymod rail and once I find some good covers for it, not sure if the NSR Panel Set will work but ideally that is what Id like to go with.
AFG vs VFG is personal and be ready to change your mind once you do some shooting with it. Luckily the MagPul AFG and VFG are fairly inexpensive so if you don't like it you won't be out a bunch of cash.
Sometimes you can't use both hands. In fact, during AMIS training, I shot a guy in the wrist with a simunition. Had it been a real bullet, and him using an M4 carbine, and us further away, what could he have done? He would have only 1 hand, now, to manipulate the carbine. Lets say I had nipped him with a lucky 9mm round while he was hunkering down behind his police cruiser (I'll play the badguy, here). Extremities are OFTEN shot as they hold the weapon in front of what is normally targeted (high chest/head).
Anyway, now he can...rest the rifle across the cruiser. Every shot he takes will move it and he will not have a stable platform. Cruisers look flat until you rest something on the hood or trunk that recoils. Then it skitters all around, even with 5.56 recoil. Or, if he has a VFG, he can put it to use stabilizing his platform. Obviously my laundry hamper is not the front tire of a P71, but you get the idea...
http://i37.tinypic.com/e7z5hv.jpg
Just a quick interjection:
I think that the best way to describe it is as being able to be used thumb over bore, as shooting it with thumb parallel to bore works fine as well.
This is in contrast to items like the GripPod, where a high/non-chicken-choker grip is distinctly un-fun.
Since we are on the topic, I find the RVG to be my go-to VFG. I also like the KAC version (used them for around a decade, so there is naturally going to be some habitual cross-over), but it's a bit on the pricey side (if bought new) and locking technology has come a long way since they first came out. The TD stubby is decent as well, especially if you want one on a QD. There are others out there that look ok, I just have a hard time going to anything else when the MagPul offering is so cost-effective and available.
I prefer vfg's with the chicken choker grip. It was born out of habit and I don't think I will change anytime soon. I would probably be a faster shooter if I switched to the afg, a stubby grip combined with a c clamp grip, or left the underside smooth, but I simply won't switch.
I ran an AFG for a couple classes and found I preferred a stubby VFG, in my case it has been the Troy. I am probably getting ready to dump it. I just picked up a new rail to lighten up my rifle a little more and will probably buy an XTM hand stop kit and if I don't like the switch over to the RVG.
I think personal preference is directly tied to your everyday use and carry of the weapon, not just comfort when actually shooting. No offense to anyone who prefers it, but I found the AFG to be unsuitable for the dismounted patrolling that I'm used to doing in the Army. I haven't been out on the ground as much as a lot of guys, but on the extended combat patrols I've done, and in MOUT training, I found that controlling my weapon to look around corners and over walls, shine a light into dark places, and just carrying it at the ready for long periods of time was much more comfortable with a VFG. I bought into the hype when the AFG was new and took one with me to Afghanistan (after using a VFG on two tours in Iraq), and I found it uncomfortable and awkward, as did a guy that I had to periodically loan my M4 to. I haven't done as much training outside of the Army as I'd like to, but it struck me that the AFG was designed by competitive shooters who may not have to handle a weapon in that type of environment. I know that's not totally fair, because those guys have a lot of shooting experience, but for me, it forces me into one specific grip that is ideal for standing and engaging targets, but may not be practical in all situations.
I switched to a stubby VFG (Tango Down, FWIW) and find that to be much more versatile for me, in that it can be used as a "handle" with my thumb forward, a hand stop, or in an angled manner (hand half on the rail, half on the VFG, thumb over the top), while transitioning quickly between grips.
Dave
I came to the same conclusion in pretty much the same way. Though I don't think the AFG was around in 05 for my last tour. If it was it wasn't super popular then. I just kept my rifle rail smooth as the bipod already look up a bunch of hand space.
When I started carrying my rifle as a LEO I found it a lot easier to operate my light with a VFG than anything else. I now use a stubby VFG.
I like a stubby VFG. I wish Magpul made a short VFG. I might cut mine down.
Anyway....I tried AFG, but being left handed the hot brass burnt and cut up my right arm, yes, literally CUT my arm. I know I know, I'm a baby.
Any Southpaws use the AFG with a standard right handed upper?
Definitely personal preference but I can't stand seeing people grip their vertical grip like it's going out of style. I do prefer a vertical grip but I only use it for a hand stop.
Bump on lefties using a straight arm hold?
I use both.
Some posters on here have modified their RVGs and AFGs into on unit. I did the same thing after I found the AFG2 wasn't aggressive enough in my hand, and the RVG was too aggressive for my hand.
I took about half of the AFG2 off from the back, making sure I did not cut the little finger rest mount slot (which I have the flat one installed) and I cut a little from the front of the RVG off to flatten it. This allowed the RVG and AFG to come together without leaving a noticeable gap that could pinch one of my fingers. This took a hack-saw and a lot of sanding (sanders from the drill press) to make the minor shavings to make the holes and the rial slots align. It took about 15 mins.
I now have a very comfortable support hand grip that is easy for transitions, and feels more natural. I also do a thumb over bore, but I generally point the thumb forward.
For all you Southpaws with getting brass shot at your arm. Learn to not lock your elbows and have slight bend with your elbow pointing towards Earth. I am a righty, but I shoot a lot of support side because stuff happens. I find the aggressive "hyper-extended" support arm forward is the general cause of getting brass thrown at you. The two ways to do this is either shorten your support arm on the fore-end, or shorten the stock. I know a lot of the schools and training is having the support arm way out there to the point of hyper-extending, but I find that this fatigues the arm while in this position for a while, and you seem to be really reaching for your contact point when switching from strong side to support side.
For those who have done martial arts, you know that when delivering a punch that you are not supposed to hyper-extend, but get to a point to where your arm nearly straightens out, but you still have a slight bend in your elbow. I use this same practice when holding my rifle (or almost any gun) with my support side. It keeps my arm from getting fatigued too quickly, and I feel I am not having to over reach for my forearm grip when doing a transition.
When I shoot support-side I guess I'm a lefty. What do you want to know? I pull the trigger, holes appear in the target. Nothing is different from how a righty would do it. I've never had brass hit my arm or face that I recall, except once shooting out of a driver's side window support-side, my arm blocked the ejection port.
Yeah, do you find your right arm getting banged up?
I use cut down Magpul RVGs on my guns. They're light, they index your hand in a consistent location, provide support and control, are unobtrusive, can brace your gun on a barricade, and are pretty cheap as well.
I tried an AFG, and it just seemed to add diameter to the handguard with very little benefit to me.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...1.jpg~original
How do you cut it?
Tape it, mark it, and use what type of saw?
Enough material for twerking?
JK.
What saw do you cut it with?
i'm a lefty and have tried various support hand positions and holds, but i don't ever recall having an issue with brass hitting my forearm with the AR15. for my elbow to be that high such that i get hit, it's uncomfortable (for me).
a little off-topic, but the only time i've really been beat up by brass was when i shot a Mk48 Mod 0 offhand. holy crap, the brass and links come out of that thing with force! my forearm was covered in red marks after a few long bursts. i'm definitely not man enough to wield that weapon.