I would like to know what makes Wilson worth double plus what a STI 1911 is. The STI seems to be a great deal for the price.
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I would like to know what makes Wilson worth double plus what a STI 1911 is. The STI seems to be a great deal for the price.
I've never owned a Wilson, but have owned an STI. I've asked the same question. Basically, what you are going to hear is that STI is a mass produced product, where as the Wilson Combat is a fully custom 1911 with the highest attention to detail placed on the craftsmanship of the fit and finish. Both are excellent examples of the 1911. Buy what you are comfortable spending your money on. Both shoot the same caliber. One doesn't shoot better than the other, but might feel different in your hand. There are plenty of WC owners on this forum. I am sure they will chime in eventually.
Personally, I think Dan Wesson's Valor is as good as it gets for a semi-custom 1911. It's not much more than most STI's and is more than half the price of a WC. Personally, my STI gave me problems. I didn't have the patience to send it back to STI for review and repair, so I sold it. My Valor ran flawless and was as accurate as I could be. I'm currently without a 1911. If I bought another one today, I'd buy a Wilson Combat CQB! ;) Good luck and I hope this gets your thread started in the right direction.
remember that the "percieved quality vs. cost" graph is not linear, with regards to 1911's
Some people can tell the difference, others can't.
I think STIs are hideous and not anything stellar in the performance dept either. 'Bout like a Springfield Loaded with a better sear. Except the STI is ugly and has been ruined with a ramped barrel.
I don't own a high end 1911 but I have shot a few. Honestly, they might look better, but they function the same as my springfields and my STI so far. My low end springfield loaded has been the best performing so far, though my STI is shaping up to be just as good if not better. My TRP has made one trip back to Springfield so far, but has been reliable so far since then (it was sent back due to feeding issues). Granted the STI is in 9mm and I have heard they are more prone to issues in that caliber but so far I have about 900 or so rounds through my STI Duty one 5.0 and the only issues I have had is with crappy PMC ammo.
I think the biggest difference you would notice is if you were going with a shorter format 1911 as wilson has seemed to figure those out. I went with an STI 9mm as it seems like they have that caliber figured out. The wilson would have also been a good choice, but I didn't want to wait.
My gunsmith told me that STI products are some of the most consistent in the industry.
STI single stacks are about the ugliest 1911's ever built, and would never commission a gun to be built on an STI base (all my 1911's are custom). Since the only pieces retained from base guns are the frame and slide, STI's single stacks are not considered
Pistolsmith extraordinaire, Jerry Keefer says their slides are the straightest and most consistent for building Bullseye guns, though. I would not doubt his assessment.
Wilson is up there, would be my 1st choice other than a full custom. Most any good quality 1911 can be made to run, remember this is all the same platform so it's not like we're comparing cats and dogs. One of the best smiths I know and one that's on this site told me long ago that after a point all your paying for is his time, as in name, labor and art(cosmetics). That said, Cosmetics play a big part in my purchase or I would just have glocks or hks. It's all what u want and can afford, they cost more but there desired more and bring a premium. Get what you like as long as it runs. They're all 1911s.
The Lawman guns are cool, but their .45s are shitted up with a ramped barrel.
I have owned several 1911's and I have 4 WC's. You get what you pay for and they are worth them money. I've handled STI's and I'm not that impressed. Dan Wesson's are nice but I like the options to chose from with Wilson, the customer service is outstanding, and when you get the gun it works. Very rarely do you hear about a brand new WC that won't run new out of the bag (unless it's caused by a stupid user trick)
I really don't want to shit on another 1911 thread, but I really want a 1911 and every time I come in this forum I see a thread like this.
Why would anyone spend $2000 on a 1911 that barely runs when you can buy three Glocks with mags and ammo for the same price and all three will run until the universe ends? I'm not doubting the quality of a WC 1911 over a Glock. But fit and finish is irrelevant when the gun jams.
Are there any 1911s that run out of the box with factory HP and FMJ? I thought STI and WC were premier 1911 guys. You mean not even they can get one to run right?
The truth is most 1911's will run out of the box. Go to any pistol match and the winners will usually be shooting a 1911 or 2011, and most of the time it is an STI.
I believe that most will run great, but go to any Glock discussion and no one talks about how to make them more reliable or how they had crooked slides. I know the 1911 is a great platform, but I am having a hard time figuring out what 1911 to buy. I just want something that looks good, is fun, and will run flawlessly but threads like this have me worried. If there are a few $2000 1911s that don't work right, how will a $900 Colt run?
Any 1911 can run out of the box but it's the dumb ass behind the trigger that causes it to not run. They require more care and brains than those polymer wonder pistols do so that's why guys flock to their Glock. The fit and finish plays a part but it's the QUALITY of the parts and workmanship. I've seen Glock's fail and there are all these aftermarket parts that "need to added" to get them to run now. There were all kind of issues when the Gen4 came out yet the Glock is still the "best there is" I'll take any of my Wilson's or a 1911 that I've been through over a Glock. Again its how much you want to maintain your platform and understand its strengths yet weaknesses.
What's funny is that during the Vickers 1911 Operators class he never mentioned STI. It was Wilson Combat, Springfield Custom Shop, then add in Baer, Brown, and NH in any order. There is a difference between a combat gun and a match gun too.
Hello?!
Go read a Glock or M&P forum. All it is is people whining about poor ejection, accuracy, and shitty triggers.
This forum in particular is full of people who, it seems, can't handle anything mechanical.
They have to change every spring, buffer, on an AR to get it to work, and the 1911 is a total mind blower around here.
Buy a Colt, use Colt parts and good ammo and they work. And work and work.
This is not really a STI vs Wilson thread, but a lower end/reasonably priced 1911 vs high end production 1911 thread where you can fill in the brands. It's a topic that's been done do death, over and over and ....
One can read various threads here and articles elsewhere as to the differences between lower end/mid end/higher end offerings, and decide for themselves.
The usual Qs apply, how many rnds do you put through guns each year? What's its intended use, etc, etc. You'll find most in the know about 1911s will be very clear that if it's to be duty/combat/CCW gun, you don't
trust your life to lower end 1911s.
As I'm out of the 1911 game, I have not kept up with the most up to date info as to who is producing what for quality/price.
I have owned many 1911's over the years. They have all been reliable. What makes them unreliable is bad gunsmithing. One funny thing I have noticed at matches is the guns that break down are owned by gunsmiths. These guys over work their guns to the point of not being reliable. But they sure feel smooth when you handle them. One day I will find a gunsmith who can keep his guns running and them maybe he can work on my guns.
An important point you raise is there's smiths who can make pretty 1911s, and smiths known for building 1911s that run and run and run. I recall Chuck Rogers had a reputation for building 1911s that ran. And, like so man really good smiths, go to his web page and it says:
"I am overbooked and am
not accepting work at this time."
Since the beginning of their existence, STI has never been able to supply a double stack pistol that would reliably lock the slide open on an empty magazine. STI has changed follower design and many 3rd part companies have made followers to no avail. While ipsc shooters sloff this issue off and say that they would never want their slide to lock back, this is the key reason sti pistols have never been considered for use by law, military, or serious defense users.
Purchase a double stack 1911 for anything but competition and range plinking, you get what you deserved. Even then...My understanding is this discussion is on single stack "real" 1911s only from STI.
I had a buddy goofy enough to buy a Para double stack (against my advice) and no amount of sending back and having several smiths work on it could make that POS reliable. He sold it to someone who used it as a base gun for a race gun I recall.
While many ipsc shooters do, there is still an issue with the slide not locking back on sti and svi double stack pistols. I have owned over 10 and none would lock back, even with slide locks from other companies. The issue has to due with the mag geometry. Since the majority of sti pistols are used in the ipsc gungames, they never saw a reason for fix the issue. That's why sti does not see serious use in IDPA or for serious self defense use. Now back to single stacks. There is no comparison between a Wilson and sti. Get the Wilson if the pistol is for serious use.
i have to disagree with your assessment- a year ago or so i got into STI 's double stacks and have had 7 of them- all have ran super reliably without a single problem!
otoh, i also bought a NHC FALCON , that needed to return to its nest on a couple of occasions, for feeding issues.
in my experience, more$$$$ didn't translate to total reliability. and i'd stake my life on my 2011 tacticals any day of the week.
Will, i do believe that STI has improved their platform immensely. i'm not their cheer leader, or have any vested interest in their company, but after a year of owning several of their 2011s, count me a believer.
btw, great site- brinkzone.com.
I was looking at a single stack STI not the 2011. I ended up getting the STI Lawman 5.0, very nice accurate and reliable gun. At half the price of the low end Wilsons.
You did well there- i'd stack any of sti's single stack against any of the uber$$$ WC/NHC/EB/GI.
And i have one or two of the aforementioned ones as well as an sti single stack.
I do more lurking than posting, but I do have some experience working with recently produced STI single stacks. It seems as though STI is drifitng away from relying so much on selling parts and they are making a push towards selling complete pistols. The results are really showing up in the fit and finish across the board and in reliability problems. The last half a dozen new STI single stack pistols that I have worked with have rotary sanding marks showing through the bead blasting and coating, the small parts don't fit very well, the extractors are known for inadequate tension, and the list goes on. STI looks to be on a downhill slide in the CQ department.
Could you please post some pictures of these QC issues?
STI is trying to crank out more pistols to fill demand and perhaps, their QC is slipping.
What took me away from my beloved 1911s, was the S&W M&P series of handguns. That was the polymer wonder pistol that finally had many a die hard 1911 shooter - me included- finally leave the platform, including those I followed for 1911 advice, such as Hilton Yam. You'll find a number of good threads here on that one.
Beauty (as is "worth") is in the eye of the beholder. I have owned several STI 1911s and they are well made, accurate, & their customer service is second to none. I also own a high end 1911 (but not a Wilson) which is very well made and accurate, but it did cost more than twice as much as my most expensive STI. So if you are buying for show, buy the Wilson (or EB or Nighthawk or NoName, etc). If you are buying for shooting, look at your bank account and buy what you like best and what you can afford.