At the next local gun show i plan to buy a Stag Arms M4. They are around $750 which is a great price compared to Stags website. But i want to get a Pivoting Bipod and a Flashlight. I was thinking of going with CAA. What do you guys think?
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At the next local gun show i plan to buy a Stag Arms M4. They are around $750 which is a great price compared to Stags website. But i want to get a Pivoting Bipod and a Flashlight. I was thinking of going with CAA. What do you guys think?
I think this is not going to go well. :)
Easy Animal. :D
http://www.ugo.com/movies/soldiers-i...imalmother.jpg
PYRO: Get your Stag, stay away from the CAA stuff. Learn to shoot the Stag, educate yourself, then start forming your own opinions as you gain some experience.
oh.. when i said flashlight i meant just for show... dont think movies. And i meant to say bipod grip
Now you might not believe it but under fire Animal Mother is one of the finest human beings in the world.... all he needs is somebody to throw hand grenades at him the rest of his life.... ;)
Pyro, buy yourself some magazines (D&H w/ Magpul followers, PMAGs, etc) and some good ammo (XM193) and go shoot your stag...
the best thing you can functionally do to your stag is check the gas key for proper staking and tightness, and replace the extractor spring/insert with the right one for a carbine...
have you ever used the grippod or the CAA knockoff? how do you know you want one? looks?
as for a simple light setup, the cheapest i'd go is a Surefire G2 in one of the many mounts available...
i am local to CAA/Fobus/First Samco/etc, i've seen all the junk they've imported in from israel over the years, and it really doesn't impress me much at all... it is priced cheap because it IS cheap... the only CAA product i own is a 1911 paddle holster/mag holder combo that was like $15 and works well for IDPA...
if you are getting a light for "show", you aren't going to find much help or sympathy around here...
Well i want a good light... but what Brand of Grip bipod is good then?
Ok the facts are
-I want a good light preferable from SureFire
-I want a pivoting bipod grip(good name brands would help)
-Seems everyone thinks Stag is a good quality gun? Right? For the price.
Stag makes good guns (I own 3 lowers) and the SureFire G2Led is a great entry level flashlight. As far as biopd grips go I have no experience with any brand. Buy quality GI and PMAG magazines, good ammo and practice on the range...
Stan
Stags are just fine, as a matter of fact my new build is on a stag lower with and armalite LPK. Any surefire flashlight will work, just buy the one you can afford and get a good mount for it. Why do you want a pivoting forward grip? A standard KAC vfg can usually be found relatively cheap if you check member sales forums here and another popular website that will remain nameless. My buddy runs a harris bipod on a CAA rail mount and it seems to work well for him. Never did care for grip-pods much. In the end, just by what you want bro, it's your rifle and you can mount whatever you like on it. Just enjoy shooting it.
I mean to be honest ... if i dont like it i can just use it as a front grip. I figured i would just get a front grip but why not buy the one with a bipod, and then why not pay an extra 30 bucks or so for one that pivots.
When something is designed for more than one purpose there will be a compromise of the effectiveness of that product for any one role. Are you going to be shooting prone or off bench a lot? Or are you going to be shooting while standing, kneeling or on the run? These are things that you should consider. You may find that a bipod/grip combo to be cumbersome and clumsy when used as a vertical grip, then you may just take it off altogether. I would buy a quality vertical grip from TD or Larue etc. And get one of those cheap plastic bipods that clamp onto the barrel via spring tension that can be taken off in a second. Just my .02
Stan
ok thanks
oh ok that doesnt mean the quality of the gun changes right??... then what other company has the Bipod grip?
Why don't you take a look at this thread - https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7297 - and check with Grant about availability. I know that if I was going to buy a low cost AR that I would trust as a go to gun, that would be at the top of my list. I know, I know it is just slightly more than $750 but you're getting a quality build with quality parts from a trusted dealer, not a Joe Schmo gun show fly by night vendor that you'll never see again.
Alternatively, if you are just looking for a plinker, check out this thread - https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=13279 - it's probably the best built el-cheapo (only in cost really) plinker you're ever gonna buy as a complete (well you do still need to buy a trigger/hammer but that's easy and cheap) rifle.
CAA stuff does suck, regardless of what the gun mags say about the stuff.
Skip the grip pod, skip the bipod, learn to shoot off a bag.
If you are on a low budget then buy a 10 pack of mags from bravo company for $120, great deal to get you rolling.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-...f%2010pack.htm
Then since the weapon you are interested in has a 1/9 twist- you wont benefit from shooting anything over 62 grain ammo.
This stuff is cheap- but runs great for the money:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/W...55grn_FMJ.html
Keep your weapon bone stock until you shoot 1,000 rounds through it. If it makes it there with out any problems then experiment with accessories. Try out what others have had before you buy it.
There is only really one quality maker of the Grip Pod. http://www.mountsplus.com/miva/merch.../CTGY/GRIP_POD
C4
So... Stag is in the crap catagory... whats ADS in? Because if i buy a Stag and i keep posting in here about stuff breaking on it i know im going to see a lot of "i told you so" so if i get one that people recommend then i wont have to blame myself for a bad buy. ;)
I think the point people are trying to make is, if you are going to shoot the living piss out of the gun, buy a Colt, Noveske, LMT. If you are only going to shoot around 1K rounds or less a year and keep it NIB clean, then Stag is an economical option. However, if you buy a Stag and decide you want to run it hard and stuff breaks, then people will say "we told you so".
I advocate having Grant build you one in your price range- Not that I'm a cheerleader. When I'm not in Iraq, I sell guns at a Gander Mtn. and I hear the shit dealers say to sell a gun... Grant is not the typical "Gun Dealer" that spews out the bullshit printed latest Gun Magazine-
I'll think about ADS... Im going to go to the gun show on the 12th and see what they have... I'll take in all their BS but keep ADS in the back of my head. Hey how much would an M4 be if i wanted the quad rail?
Another way of putting things with regard to a gun show purchase or not would be to say "if you want a Stag, buy a Stag". Go to Stag's website and order one. Alternately, as has been suggested, go to a reputable online dealer such as can be found here on this forum. Search here for some effective DIY upgrades, keep the rifle well-lubed and reasonably clean and shoot the whee out of it. If it quits, find out why and fix it. If it doesn't, you are GTG!
For a guy who is posting his "69th" post :D Hellbound is pretty much right on.
Get the rifle. Get good mags. Get good ammo. Get a good light like the Sure Fire G2 in a decent mount and go shoot and get familiar with your setup. Practice dry firing in your home with the light so it is instinctive. Hell...the rifle might not even run, so don't put anything on it until you have passed this first milestone.
Of course this is just my opinion.
ok... ive been thinking alot today, and if im going to buy a rifle for $800 that people are contradicting i should just save up until September or October and buy a Noveske, for $1400 ... i mean what is $600 more for having the best brand name gun?(one of the best, not sure if its the best)
Nah nevermind... i was thinking about what that guy said, not sure who but he said if it breaks you figure out what is broken and fix it... See this is my first rifle... id rather a gun always break and me always fix it ... so in the future i know whats what . So if the gun doesnt break ... i look at it as a win win. Im just getting a rifle to mess around at the range with not for training or defending my life. Because yes i do think my life is worth a lil more than $800. But i think Stag is a good starter gun for the reasons ive listed above.
I would forget the Stag and the accessories and buy yourself a quality bare bones rifle by combining the funds from both of these.
You will be farther ahead.
$1000 can get you a nice used Colt or LMT.
Mr. Pyro get the ADS from G&R . I have one as well as several other members here. They are a great value. I'm saving up for a middy upper next.They don't have the name recognition yet on the AR Market, But they remind me of my Ruger P89. It will shoot and eat anything you give it.http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=13661
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15519
What about Armalite?
So in other words im basically a person that is looking to buy my first car and is sure what kind i want, just dont know the manufactuer. Ive been recommended to Rock River Arms by a close friend that has been in the Navy for over 20 years, he told me that's what he has and he's put 15,000 rounds into each of his guns, not sure how many RRA he has but ... you get the point.
There is MUCH more knowledge on this forum than what your personal references may be unless they have personally owned and shot tens of thousands of rounds through each platform like the combined group of members on this forum. And for heavens sake, don't listen to the Gun Shop owners. They're there to sell you what they have on the shelf
IMHO, and if you do enough searching on this forum, you will come to the same conclusions. Here is a comprehensive comparison of all of the major AR manufacturers, and what they offer in their rifles. This was put together (very well I might add) by Rob_S who is a non-biased member on this forum who is not associated in any way with any AR manufacturers.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...ght=Robs+Chart
After you look at this, decide what you want, and what you want to spend and just do it. There really is no reason to look anywhere else IMHO.
FWIW...I own a Lewis machine and Tool (LMT) 16" Monolithic Rail Platform (MRP) upper with 2 LMT bolts and an LMT Bolt Carrier Group (BCG), and an LMT lower, and a Bushmaster lower. Most of your concern, time, and $$$ should be invested in your upper as IMHO the lowers (as long as they are in spec.) will do just fine. I,e., my Bushmaster lower has been 100% failure free for over 10,000 rounds now.
Ive decided to go to the gun show and keep an eye out , im going to save until either Sep. or Oct. Then buy a RRA, with quad rail..If you guys would recommend some "add on parts" let me know... its the Entry Tactical with the A2 mount... for $980.
Or maybe ill get the A4 mount... i mean its not that much price dif.
Well there is also the TASC rifle... But its a different barrel so i honestly dont know the difference. Unless the Carry handle is actually part of the TASC rifle? Im looking and thats what it seems like. Anyone know?
Yeah i did... multiple times but i figured it out to be $1200 for the RRA rifle i want.
What if Satan told you that Oly Arms made the best AR out there. Would you change your mind and buy one of those?
No offense to your friend in the USN, but being in the Navy does not mean he is qualified to tell you anything about which AR is quality and which is not. You also have to stop basing your opinion on what is quality and what is not on one persons opinion. Look at the chart and understand that the guns that follow the TDP the closest, are going to be the best quality.
I will break it down for you since the chart does not seem to be getting thru:
Tier 1
Colt
FN
Tier 2
LMT
Noveske
BCM
Tier 3
CD Defense
S&W
ADS
Tier 4
BM
RRA
DPMS
Armalite
Oly
Stag
Here is why I put companies where I do:
1. To make tier one, you must be issued the TDP and have a .Mil contract.
2. To make tier two, you must follow the TDP as closely as possible, but do not have the official TDP and do not have an official .Mil contract.
3. Tier three is companies that are following the TDP, but have left off things like HPT/MP testing on every bolt and barrel and or use cheap barrel steel (4140).
4. Tier four companies do not follow the TDP, use the cheapest parts they can find and cut every corner possible.
Now with that said, I wouldn't have any issue with owning say a CD Defense LE M4 out of the tier 3 group.
The above is also my OPINION based on YEARS of building weapons, checking specs and knowing where they get their parts from.
Now if you want a tier 4 weapon for your needs, then great (nothing wrong with that). It is however not up to the same quality as the other weapons.
C4
One thing i dont understand is why people refuse to look at that chart and believe what it says.
That chart doesnt mean that any tier 4 guns are going to immediately explode the second you chamber a round or have an infinite amount of problems.
All it means is that the tier 1, 2 and 3 guns are made to a better standard so the likelihood of having issues with the rifle is generally slimmer.
For the SLIM price difference between the tier 1 and 2 rifles and the third and fourth tier rifles i would hold off on the purchase and save a little more money to ensure that i got something that has been put together to the best possible standards.