For those of you have both a can and SBR, if you had to choose one over the other (or wanting to get into an NFA item but could only do one), which would it be and why?
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For those of you have both a can and SBR, if you had to choose one over the other (or wanting to get into an NFA item but could only do one), which would it be and why?
Can, because 16" mid-length gas is the single best AR configuration.
Put a can on a 16 inch barrel and now you have a 20 +inch or more barrel in front of you. SBR then get a can later
I just had one of my transfereable AKs made into an AK-105. I would agree it is the single best AK.
Before:
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5650/akafh7.jpg
After:
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9545/dsc1236gh1.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5995/dsc1249qo7.jpg
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4087/dsc1253sw5.jpg
I see no point in a suppressed 16" gun. The added weight on the end makes the gun ridiculously unwieldy for shots on moving targets on transitioning between targets at close range. Remember, too, that 5.56 suppressors don't even take the sound of the shot down below the threshold of permanent hearing damage from short term exposure (around 130 DB).
If I had only one $200 tax to pay for, it would be the SBR hands down.
If you are talking about a .30 Cal can - definately get it over the SBR
Otherwise - SBR.
From my perspective it's really about application. An SBR has it specific uses (other then the CDI factor) when size constraints apply. Let off a round (or burst) in the cement hallways of a school and you and the rest of the team had better be wearing hearing protection. Enter the need for a suppressor. If I had but one it would be the SBR in 12.5".
If you get a can, is it possible to switch it between guns, or is it registered to one specific gun?
I want to go off-topic for just a moment to address something:
I am a fan of the AK platform myself, and own and shoot two 12.5" guns in AK-102 and AK-105 clone configurations. I agree subjectively that this is the best configuration - do either of you have any empirical data on this or is it just your opinions as well? With the middys there is a wealth of data concerting dwell times and pressure curves all all of the other stuff that one can measure. Do either of you have similar data for the AK-105 platform?
BTW very nice conversion rsilvers. Is that a Ted Marshall build?
If I had to give up either my SBRs or my CAN, I'd keep the CAN!!!
I don't mind running my can on non NFA barrel lengths at all. In fact, I don't run my can on my SBRs... EVER.
I'm getting a .30 caliber can first and an SBR later, much later :)
sbr.
no doubt about it.
shortening a carbine makes it more usable.
Sound suppression is NICE, but also makes the carbine heavier and longer.
The sbr will make you a faster, more maneuverable fighter.
SBR. Because eventually you WILL want a can for it. And then you'll have both.
SBR... only because i'm in the process! :)
The excitement factor on getting a can was 10 times higher than getting an SBR for me. :p
Wow, definitely some good discussion in this thread! I too am in the SBR or can dilemma. I currently have a great all-round general purpose carbine, my LMT with the 16" bbl. I always told myself I would have the bbl cut down and the muzzle device perm attached when I got a can for it. In Iraq I had my M4 equipped with a KAC Nt4 QDSS. I much preferred having the can equipped for any type of "outdoors" work. It really increased my hit probability with the weapon at ranges between 50-300 yards, especially if she was wearing my TA01-NSN. I attribute this to less flinch from muzzle blast and no hearing protection as well as the added weight and stability of the weapon, not so much to the increased accuracy from the can. Given my current GP carbine is wearing a TA33-8, it kind of makes sense putting a can on it.
However, whenever I knew I would be going into a building the last thing I wanted dangling off the end of my 14.5" barrel was a big fat can and a TA01. I wanted the shortest barrel I could get and an M68. That being said the first time I got to play with a Mk18 it really impressed me. The speed of handling and overall balance of the weapon even with an NT4 on the end of it is very impressive to say the least. I guess I just don't know which one I want to get...I am leaning toward an LMT Mk18 clone.
I've been going back on forth on this for years, which has pretty much resulted in a brain freeze. Looking back, I realize that had I just done one or the other then, I would in all probability have both by now. With current uncertainties as to the upcoming election, I've becoming more inclined to just get something done. I've been leaning toward the SBR for the reasons you guys had listed, however, everyone local that I've talked to has told me to get a can.
I've had only one opportunity to shoot a can...a Surefire at an indoor range....and I honestly wasn't all that impressed. Maybe I had unfounded but high expectations, but it was still pretty damn loud even with ear pro and it made the 16" rifle feel extremely unweildy.
I had the same choice to make, SBR or can. What it came down to is that hunting season is coming up fast and I don't like to wear earplugs. So I went with the can.
Shooting a suppressor indoors with supersonic ammo is not the way to get a handle on it. Regardless of barrel length or brand it is going to be extremely loud.
That said 5.56 cans are loud compared to .30 cal cans.
With respect to your thoughts on a 16" with a can - at least you know this - if you were to buy a can you want a short / light weight one to reduce this feeling......
Good luck with your choice
SBR. Then can.
My 16" with a can is not something I'd grab when I want a light and handy rifle, but at least it's a tad shorter than my vanilla 20".
I definitely shoot better with it, though. I would not give up the can for an SBR, but then I don't really have a *need* for an SBR, either. If I could do it over I'd use a medium contour stainless barrel rather than my chrome lined gov't profile.
Can first & SBR later. Both are nice, but the can is much more versatile overall & can be fitted to several weapons. I've been actively shooting for over 30 yrs. & adding a suppressor to the mix pegs the fun meter.
Side by side, shooting the same model cans, the same ammo on similar carbines with different barrel lengths, there will be a slight difference in the 16" compared to the shorter one. I've tested this with 16" vs. 10.5" and it was very noticeable to all of the 23 people assembled. However, the difference is not earth shattering & in a practical sense, not really perceptible unless compared side by side.
Agreed.
I find the difference between more obvious from the shooters position. The port noise is what gets me when shooting a can on an SBR. Standing off a bit, I can't really tell the diff between supressors or varying barrel lengths.Quote:
Side by side, shooting the same model cans, the same ammo on similar carbines with different barrel lengths, there will be a slight difference in the 16" compared to the shorter one. I've tested this with 16" vs. 10.5" and it was very noticeable to all of the 23 people assembled. However, the difference is not earth shattering & in a practical sense, not really perceptible unless compared side by side.
5.56 AR SBR first.
My first NFA item was a 22lr suppressor, and I did it just to get my feet wet. The SBR's are, by far, the single most useful stamps I have.
Once you handle an SBR all day for several days straight, you wonder how you ever managed lugging around the 16" gun.
When I first answered this question I was considering the majority of users/readers that might be considering such a purchase. Overall, for most people that go to square ranges & don't work indoors much with weapons, I still stick to my previous suggestion: get the can first.
However, if you work with a carbine indoors a lot, then by all means get the short weapon. That's what I did. I started with short entry shotguns (SBS), followed by short carbines (SBR) then cans. That's because I was working in small, confined areas around people. If you've never heard them before, a can on a carbine can be somewhat disappointing to the person hearing it for the first time. They're not terribly loud, but sound sort of like a .22LR unsuppressed, but not quite. Indoors, they're louder still, but markedly better than unsuppressed. At your first opportunity, get around some shooters with cans & carbines to hear them for yourself.
If you shoot primarily outdoors at square ranges, get the can. If you want the ultimate first time pegging of the fun meter, get a quality .22LR suppressor & don't look back. If you aren't hooked on NFA items after that . . .
I wasn't disappointed with any of these decisions, regardless.