Agreed. The renderings are poor at best, I recognize some of the parts from "grabcad" - that's not super confidence inspiring. At this price point, with working prototypes, clear images are a must imho.
For me the standard length of pull is very important. I am 6'4" with long arms and do not wear body armor, Now I realize some men may have shorter arms and a shorter length of pull would be fine for them. But for me I would like to see at least an option of a normal LOP.
$395 for an MVB ARC stock. Uses my standard BCG and is tunable with standard buffer weights. Or $270 for a LAW system that uses my stock and no proprietary parts other than the mechanism itself.
Troy isn't even considered do to the fact that someone did some goofy welding on a bolt carrier and their product images inspire 0 confidence that they employed a competent precision welder in this.
Why is this better for $500? Any answers like lifetime warranty are worthless with the rate of bankruptcy with startups and even established companies.
I want to like this product, I like folding stocks. But I, and most people like the AR platform for parts interchangeably without hassle.
My advice is to drop as many proprietary parts as possible, a full parts breakdown/viewable schematics openly available. And a price point that is competitive with existing options.
$400 that uses parts I can buy on the Internet 20 years after the company goes bankrupt, yes.
$500 with a whole lot of unknowns, hell no.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
I could go for some real photos, and even a video in action. Seeing is believing for me. Great idea for sure.
Subjectively I don't like, to be quite blunt. You would not find a customer in me. Not to say you wouldn't in others though.
Here is why:
-Its just not even that short. I have a LWRCi UCIW stock, its not the shortest but certainly makes a difference. I does not require any modifications to the upper, period. Also any Mil spec stock can go on a UCIW extension tube, with some reduction in length of pull range though. I'd like to see this laid out against the competition for length differences.
-Its awkward. Looks to have many places to catch on gear. Its nice it cycles folded, but how exactly to get at the trigger, it looks covered in the rendering? The LAW stock might not cycle folded, but it folds shorter and cleaner and if you can't reach the trigger whats the difference?
-To long when unfolded. Lack of stock choice.
You may find others as a buyer, so don't be discouraged. I know the slide fire stock guy made millions, and I don't own one. You asked for feed back, thats what I think. However my opinion is limited by the lack of pictures on the website. Its hard to tell anything from the vid and low res rendering.
I wish you luck.
All,
First off, please know how grateful we are for all of you offering your feedback. This kind of dialogue is exactly what we were looking for and it is very much appreciated.
I am going to comment on a few of the recent issues brought up in comments.
-Regarding pictures and video: It is being worked on. Thank you for your patience. Product won’t ship to consumers until Feb. 1 and we are in the process of filming and editing a series of videos, some of which I mentioned previously. When the website is updated with more concrete pictures and other video I will let you know.
-Regarding LOP: The LOP is increased if user uses a standard stock and if the user prefers a shooting position with the stock fully collapsed. Competitor products sold in the market also increase the LOP in the same way. There are stocks on the market a user could use with the DFA system that would bring the pull back to standard (again, only if preferred LOP is a fully collapsed stock). DFA is also considering adding their own stock that would reduce the LOP when fully collapsed. Again, I think a value add for the DFA system is the ability for user to use whatever stock he prefers and not be “married” to a stock created by one company. I do not believe that anyone with either a standard or longer than average LOP will be affected.
-Regarding Durability/Quality: This should be the biggest concern of any user, or company. When full reviews from outside third parties respected in the community are completed I will post accordingly. I will also post video of our own stress tests once edited. The product will perform exceptionally under third party due diligence tests.
Notes on Competition / Alternative products offered / Concerns, see below:
The MVB ARC stock is retractable and longer. Again, I believe there is a far greater demand for a folding stock AR15 kit that can be used with any AR platform than there is for retractable stocks.Quote:
“$395 for an MVB ARC stock. Uses my standard BCG and is tunable with standard buffer weights.”
The LAW system is great, but the DFA system is shorter and most importantly, it allows user to fire while rifle is folded repeatedly. The market will decide if being able to shoot while rifle is folded (in addition to concealment and portability) is worth the price increase. I believe the demand has been there for such a product from the beginning.Quote:
“Or $270 for a LAW system that uses my stock and no proprietary parts other than the mechanism itself.”
For instance: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/57...ing_Stock.html
It reduces OAL to 26.5” when stock is folded on a standard 16” barrel. This is 6 inches shorter than standard. Again, when the collapsible stock was first introduced to market it too was 6 inches shorter than standard.Quote:
“It’s just not even that short”
That is an awesome stock. Fully collapsed, that stock reduces OAL of rifle to around 30.5” The DFA system reduces OAL 4 inches shorter than that stock though (to 26.5" on standard 16" barrel)Quote:
“I have a LWRCi UCIW stock”
There is no issue for user to fire weapon while stock is folded or deployed. Obviously more videos need to be done to illustrate this, but user has no issue “reaching the trigger” when stock is folded. The stock does not get in the way of the firing hand. User can use any stock compatible with standard AR15. Whether the OAL is too long when unfolded would depend on the stock a user “selects” to use. It is a matter of his or her partiality, completely modifiable to his or her own preference.Quote:
“Its awkward, too long when unfolded, lack of stock choice, “Law stock might not cycle folded, but it folds shorter and cleaner and if you can’t reach the trigger what’s the difference?”
Again, thank you for the dialogue. Would love to see more, I will keep you all posted as more videos are shot and reviews are completed.
Hey All,
As promised, below are two links to some videos regarding the product. Prototypes recently completed and first production run is likely to be in February. We will be a NEXT exhibiter for SHOT show next week, and in Feb. we will have a couple of well known/highly regarded reviewers conduct their reviews and product testing as well. As always, your feedback/thoughts are greatly appreciated. If the videos spur any other questions as well please post them and I will reply.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T68Q...youtu.be&rel=0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2lk...youtu.be&rel=0
more video will also be coming.
Watched the videos. You lost me. I'm cross dominant, and primarily shoulder with my left hand.. but not always. Hanging sharp metal where I expect NTCH cheekweld and right where my fingers cross with an ambi CH.. just, nope.