Just saw this pop on youbtube and figured, since I hadn't seen anything on here so far. I'd post it to see thoughts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ-8aLuVzeE&t=0s
Just saw this pop on youbtube and figured, since I hadn't seen anything on here so far. I'd post it to see thoughts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ-8aLuVzeE&t=0s
Link with ATF letter:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...r-sb-tactical/
Now my question is, can I strap a mag carrier or two onto a blade or brace without some "Shoelace = Machinegun" butterknife-on-the-scalpel-tray deciding that turns it into a stock?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d140f80bf2.gif
Here comes the second coming of the AR pistol.
I think the more we undermine the left's position on guns with the shoulder thing that goes up, the better. :)
For the love of God just nobody send the atf any letters to "make sure"..
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You can shoulder your SIG brace now. Amazingly enough the ATF makes a logically rationale decision!
Amazing. I have long said that the ATF was wrong and misuse the definition of redesigned when they stated that merely shouldering a Sig brace made a short barrel rifle or short barreled shotgun.
As is typical for the ATF Tech Branch, their rulings are often in comprehensible and not based upon rational logic. In this particular case, if you had followed their rulings logic shooting a handgun with two hands redesigned it into an illegal, unregistered aw. As is obvious to anyone reading this, that is absolutely silly.
Finally comedy makers of the Shockwave brace have been able to get the ATF to reverse its decision and use the correct definition of redesign. This results in a more rational and logically consistent result.
So as I've been saying for 2 years, you are not going to go to jail for shoulder and your Sig brace. While I recommend that you register the weapon as an SBR, this revised ruling confirms that you may shoulder the pistol without fear of being harassed.
“an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made when the device is not reconfigured for use as a shoulder stock – even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder. To the extent that the January 2015 Open Letter implied . . .*
https://www.sb-tactical.com/blog/sb-...lizing-braces/
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I think you mean the rubbery arm thing that goes upon the shoulder. :)
https://youtu.be/JFVFnmA32WA
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Until the next time some dingbat changes his mind that is.
Uh... The last paragraph can be interpreted as: all pistol braces are actually stocks and thus any attaching of a pistol brace is making an SBR.
Attachment 45289
And I wouldn't put it past Team Bloombarf to try to by hook or by crook spam FTB trying to get "screw it, we're tired of this, PROHIBITED" rulings on everything they can...
DB, who knows how such people think from firsthand experience among the local Political Class, having been educated among their children and successfully resisted their indoctrination efforts (God bless Rush Limbaugh for that!)
As someone who thinks most NFA items should NOT be regulated, i.e. SBR's and Suppressors, I think prior letter was bull crap and this just gets us back to 'even'.
Ultimately, I want to see this administration move decisively on both suppressors and SBR's.
The ATF thinking more in line with current day American gun culture is long overdue.
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Idk I think the letter is pretty clear...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6d1226f042.png
So it's ok as long as it's not fully extended? I have no interest in them, just curious
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Yeah.
To restate it: attaching an item to a pistol that can objectively serve the purpose of allowing a firearm to be shouldered is making an SBR. You can no longer claim that you intended it to be a wrist support at time of attaching the brace or that it came with a pistol brace from the factory. Neither of those matter anymore. You can objectively look at most, if not all, pistol braces and come to the conclusion that it can serve the purpose of allowing a firearm to be shouldered. Thus it's an SBR.
What the letter does say is that after making/designing a firearm (attaching/removing things from it), the method of employment does not constitute another "making"/"design". That's good and logical. But everyone needs to read that last full paragraph again.
Edit: The specific pistol brace submitted by SB Tactical and referred to in the letter seems to have been deemed not a stock because it is both not intended to be a stock and cannot be used comfortably as a stock. Which brings up the point, if a pistol brace can be used comfortably as a stock, you might need an ATF letter to be sure it's legal.
This^^^
I own both a registered SBR as well as an AR pistol with Shockwave Blade brace, and I like having the legal option of the pistol brace in today's NFA climate, so it's nice to see them clarifying this, but the NFA is BS and SBRs and suppressors need to be taken off the NFA list.
Now acceptable to shoulder the brace.
http://www.tactical-life.com/news/at...ilizing-brace/
The actual letter;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzxy6ojxd1...21.17.pdf?dl=0
Completely agree. The NFA/ATF came about due to gangsters robbing banks in the 30's. Their purpose was to crack down on organized crime, like the urban gangs in Chicago and cartel issues we have today, NOT to harass enthusiasts and small manufacturers of niche products.
I'm just glad common sense seems to have won out!
Now if we could get the whole of the atf to self immolate.
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Them fighting this was a huge waste of time regardless. I'm glad they put out a statement in favor.
Not really. Its not so cut and dry.
If it were, such rulings such as a handgun e.g. Glock which is intended to be fired by one hand cannot be fired by 2 hands.
Intent and design come into play.
And as we all know, ATF rulings make little sense to begin with. Like somehow if you're AR rifle barrel is 15.9inches, it is an SBR.
No, you cannot put anything in the brace. Here is a better video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYMJ9yXVdjk
It's great to hear about this reversal. Now if they will just reverse the ruling that neoprene washers are considered suppressor parts"baffles" and are illegal to sell by Deadair Silencers.
And yet the wait times for Form 4s and Form 1s continues to increase......WTF?
Yeah, that would be good. Though, as an aside, I heard that you couldn't buy them, but that a number of people were just making them out of regular neoprene. Which to me, not that I agree on this, sounds like something that the ATF might have issue with. Again, not agreeing, I think the entire NFA mess is just bullshit just food for thought.
Maybe more people deciding to get into the NFA game? While I all for shorter wait times, I also for more people buying guns and if people are seeing the paperwork and tax hurdle of the NFA as less of a deterent to owning SBRs, SBSs, Suppressors, ect then I would consider that a good thing for our position since it increases the pressure that we have. That said, I still of the opinion that it should be something that should be streamlined as ****, if we can't do away with it.
So while researching for my AR pistol build I keep seeing that as of May 2017 that the ATF just posted a new letter saying that shoulder firing braced pistols is okay, as long as the weapon wasn't setup so that the brace is interned only to be used as a butt stock.
How official is an ATF letter, can they just send it out and it's their new policy?
Yep - official by decree rather than official by legislative process. It's official until they change their mind again. If enough people keep bothering them and asking questions about stuff that should just be taken with a grain of salt we're more likely to get a shitty outcome - that's exactly what happened when the pistol braces were coming out and everyone demanded an opinion. Most people don't know what an sbr/pistol/tax stamp is and won't bat an eye at you shouldering a pistol brace. Shoulder it to zero the weapon, test accuracy, different ammo, etc. but don't draw attention to yourself, don't abuse the concept, and be mindful of people around you and you will be fine.
A lot of the problem was that every swinging Richard around was posting videos of himself firing with his SigBrace shouldered. Don't do that. The latest ATF letter said 'incidental' I believe.
It's so tempting to do a pistol brace build but I've been trying to stay away from it because there seems to be no clear definitive answer to the question.
There was not a lot of attention drawn by the ATF until everybody kept asking for "opinion letters" and clarification on previous letters.
I had a brace until my stamps came through but I suggest if you have one don't go out of your way to ask for clarification, don't post videos of "ATF said it's okay to shoulder" then intentionally shoulder for a whole shooting session.
It has been said before, gun owners can be their own worst enemies.
If attention is not drawn, attention will not be paid...
Gun owners can be the biggest idiots around. As a result give the ATF about 25,000 emails asking "Did you really mean it", and the ATF will be forced to take action.