What your not a lawyer? Man I was counting on you if I ever needed legal help. As for the second comment I have highlighted. Buddy sounds like you may have some knowledge of those places!! Care to share with the class? :D ;)
Printable View
This is a discussion I have had here before:
According to the ATF, you do not have to engrave an SBR or SBS!
You can engrave whatever you want on your firearm,but you are not required by law to do so.The law as it is written refers to actual manufacturers.For instance,if you send a parts kit to In Range C2,Inc. and Troy builds a Krinkov with an 8.5" barrel he must engrave the firearm.If you modify your existing firearm by cutting the barrel down,there is no need for any engraving.
Sorry, but you're wrong.
The terms maker and manufacturer are both defined in the Federal regulations.
In a nutshell, an unlicensed individual who submits a Form 1 is a "maker." A licensee (i.e. FFL/SOT) is a "manufacturer." Both terms are defined to mean the physical act of creating an NFA weapon where one previously did not exist.
Read the quote in BAC's post, above. It clearly says both "maker" and "manufacturer" in paragraph A. That means, in plain English, that these requirements apply to both FFL/SOT's who manufacture NFA weapons and unlicensed individuals who make them.
Again, take the Pepsi Challenge and look up the Federal Regulations. This is one area where there simply isn't any question as to what the law requires.
I showed this thread and another thread on the same topic to 3 ATF field agents.
The following is a direct quote from one of the agents;"Are they fu#@ing retarded."
The letter from the ATF is very clear.
mtk,
I corrected my preious post.
The ATF field agents are not the law, though, and the opinion of a field agent cannot save someone who does not abide by the law who find themselves in legal trouble. Given the wording of the law, which I showed above, there isn't a question about interpretation. If I put together a weapon that would fall under NFA rules, I am a "maker", and the "maker" is required to mark their receivers with their name (or the name of a trust, etc.) and the city/state the "maker" "made" the weapon.
Said ATF agents might call us retarded, but unless I'm really missing a critical component of the law, his opinion means nothing.
-B
I had an ATF Field agent "seize" a HK P9S that I had shipped to a FFL in another state, because, he said, as a non-FFL I was not allowed to ship guns out of state, even to a licensed dealer.
I bet he thought I was "fu%#ing retarded," too, until his opinion was corrected by his superiors.
And the Federal Regulations are even more so.
You can take the word of an ATF Field Agent or you can read the plain English regulations.
Only one of them is actually valid law.
From the "edocket" link to the Federal Regs, above:
Make. This term and the various derivatives thereof shall include
manufacturing (other than by one qualified to engage in such business
under this part), putting together, altering, any combination of these,
or otherwise producing a firearm.
Manufacturer. Any person who is engaged in the business of
manufacturing firearms.
Should there be even a slight question as to who is a maker, see this from the same section of the law:
§ 479.61 Rate of tax.
Except as provided in this subpart, there shall be levied, collected, and paid upon the making of a firearm a tax at the rate of $200 for each firearm made. This tax shall be paid by the person making the firearm. Payment of the tax on the making of a firearm shall be represented by a $200 adhesive stamp bearing the words “National Firearms Act.” The stamps are maintained by the Director.
(emphasis added to the word "maker" above)
Non FFL/SOT's are not licensed to manufacture and are therefore responsible for the $200 tax payment.
Or even more clear, here:
§ 479.62 Application to make.
top
No person shall make a firearm unless the person has filed with the Director a written application on Form 1 (Firearms), Application to Make and Register a Firearm, in duplicate, executed under the penalties of perjury, to make and register the firearm and has received the approval of the Director to make the firearm which approval shall effectuate registration of the weapon to the applicant. The application shall identify the firearm to be made by serial number, type, model, caliber or gauge, length of barrel, other marks of identification, and the name and address of original manufacturer (if the applicant is not the original manufacturer). The applicant must be identified on the Form 1 (Firearms) by name and address and, if other than a natural person, the name and address of the principal officer or authorized representative and the employer identification number and, if an individual, the identification must include the date and place of birth and the information prescribed in §479.63. Each applicant shall identify the Federal firearms license and special (occupational) tax stamp issued to the applicant, if any. The applicant shall also show required information evidencing that making or possession of the firearm would not be in violation of law. If the making is taxable, a remittance in the amount of $200 shall be submitted with the application in accordance with the instructions on the form. If the making is taxable and the application is approved, the Director will affix a National Firearms Act stamp to the original application in the space provided therefor and properly cancel the stamp (see §479.67). The approved application will be returned to the applicant. If the making of the firearm is tax exempt under this part, an explanation of the basis of the exemption shall be attached to the Form 1 (Firearms).
Same deal here; Form 1's are for makers, not manufacturers.
Now see the part about required markings:
§ 479.102 How must firearms be identified?
(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:
(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and
(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:
(i) The model, if such designation has been made;
(ii) The caliber or gauge;
(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;
(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and
(v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.
(b) The depth of all markings required by this section will be measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases).
(c) The Director may authorize other means of identification upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this part.
(d) In the case of a destructive device, the Director may authorize other means of identifying that weapon upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) such a weapon would be dangerous or impracticable.
(e) A firearm frame or receiver that is not a component part of a complete weapon at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you must be identified as required by this section.
(f)(1) Any part defined as a machine gun, muffler, or silencer for the purposes of this part that is not a component part of a complete firearm at the time it is sold, shipped, or otherwise disposed of by you must be identified as required by this section.
(2) The Director may authorize other means of identification of parts defined as machine guns other than frames or receivers and parts defined as mufflers or silencers upon receipt of a letter application from you, submitted in duplicate, showing that such other identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of this part.
Notice how it says both "manufacturer" and "maker" in it? The reason is that the two are NOT the same thing. But both are listed in Paragraph A as having to meet the requirements shown in Subparagraphs 1 and 2.
Now look at the next section of the law:
§ 479.103 Registration of firearms manufactured.
top
Each manufacturer qualified under this part shall file with the Director an accurate notice on Form 2 (Firearms), Notice of Firearms Manufactured or Imported, executed under the penalties of perjury, to show his manufacture of firearms. The notice shall set forth the name and address of the manufacturer, identify his special (occupational) tax stamp and Federal firearms license, and show the date of manufacture, the type, model, length of barrel, overall length, caliber, gauge or size, serial numbers, and other marks of identification of the firearms he manufactures, and the place where the manufactured firearms will be kept. All firearms manufactured by him during a single day shall be included on one notice, Form 2 (Firearms), filed by the manufacturer no later than the close of the next business day. The manufacturer shall prepare the notice, Form 2 (Firearms), in duplicate, file the original notice as prescribed herein and keep the copy with the records required by subpart I of this part at the premises covered by his special (occupational) tax stamp. Receipt of the notice, Form 2 (Firearms), by the Director shall effectuate the registration of the firearms listed on that notice. The requirements of this part relating to the transfer of a firearm are applicable to transfers by qualified manufacturers.
Notice how it only says "manufacturer" in it? The reason for that is only manufacturers are licensed, not makers, and only licensees can fill out Form 2's to register new NFA weapons.
The bottom line is that you simply cannot read the above and conclude that manufacturers need to engrave and makers do not. It just doesn't pass an plain English reading of the code.
Nor does it make any logical sense to think that NFA weapons created via a Form 1 require no engraving while those created via a Form 2 require it. Both can be built from existing Title I firearms, so that angle doesn't hold up either.
And no, I'm not an attorney, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. But I can read English and that is all that is required in this case.
If anyone can find some hidden meanings or loopholes in the above, I'll eat my shorts. And not a clean pair at that. ;)