Medicare for All

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Originally Posted by docsherm

You have got to be kidding........ such a sad sorry.

So what is your hypothetical woman doing to improve her life situation? $40-50 k sucks. She needs to improve her situation....... how about an education..... she can go to school and get her degree ...... while working and taking care of her kids and so forth. It sucks for a bit but it can be done. Sleep less and stay up to do homework. Get a degree in something that is useful to society and you will get paid.

Here is how the story plays out. This woman gets enrolled in college to become an ADN. She does all of her online classes at night after the kids go to bed. She Diego to bed before midnight during the week for the 2 years she is getting Associate Degree in Nursing. But she is thinking about her kids and does it. She graduates and passes her boards. There is suck a shortage of RNs that it only takes her 1 week to get a job and she is now making $60k (median income for the US). Wow.... she is .ow making $10k more in just 2 years.....

But wait.... the suck is not over. She does not quite. She stays at it and gets her BSN and now has a 4 year degree after 18 more months. And now she is making $70k ( median income for the US). She now make $20k more..... oh, and she now has good health insurance because most medical systems have good coverage.

But wait. She is a motivated person and after 2 years of working as an RN she goes back to school and gets her Masters as a Nurse Practitioner while working as an RN making $70k a year. After her 36 month program she is an NP and making something like $110k a year. It was hard work and she lost a lot of sleep but she doubled her salary and now has a career and good health insurance....... good for her.

That is what I call a life choice.

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There are a couple of things wrong with the scenario - first of all, more than one kid for $150.00 a week child care is a fantasy. Much less when you start bumping up to working full time and going to school fulltime. Ever tried to find second shift daycare? Paid for it?

Second, $50,000.00 a year/$25.00 and hour is a pretty good wage across most of the mid-west, and I'm assuming southern states.

Additionally, most ADN programs, in my area all of them, are geared for the full-time student. They won't juggle clinicals, you get in the program and you go.

And finally, ADN, bridge to BSN, and then RNP, how much education debt does she have?

So how much of that did you have to do?

I don't know anything much about you, but let me hazard a guess, you were career military, and now on a second career, correct?

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Originally Posted by 26 Inf

There are a couple of things wrong with the scenario - first of all, more than one kid for $150.00 a week child care is a fantasy.

Second, $50,000.00 a year/$25.00 and hour is a pretty good wage across most of the mid-west, and I'm assuming southern states.

Additionally, most ADN programs, in my area all of them, are geared for the full-time student. They won't juggle clinicals, you get in the program and you go.

So how much of that did you have to do?

I don't know anything much about you, but let me hazard a guess, you were career military, correct?

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I am a realist and know that $150 a week is as realistic as a logical Liberal..... not going to happen.

You are correct, that is a full time program and you can do all of that while working and with children. My wife did while I was deploying all of the time. Clinicals can be done while working full time.

It all has to do a person's level of motivation. I have 4 kids, work full time and my wife and I are still full time students. Why, we want more.

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Originally Posted by 26 Inf

There are a couple of things wrong with the scenario - first of all, more than one kid for $150.00 a week child care is a fantasy. Much less when you start bumping up to working full time and going to school fulltime. Ever tried to find second shift daycare? Paid for it?

Second, $50,000.00 a year/$25.00 and hour is a pretty good wage across most of the mid-west, and I'm assuming southern states.

Additionally, most ADN programs, in my area all of them, are geared for the full-time student. They won't juggle clinicals, you get in the program and you go.

And finally, ADN, bridge to BSN, and then RNP, how much education debt does she have?

So how much of that did you have to do?

I don't know anything much about you, but let me hazard a guess, you were career military, and now on a second career, correct?

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Maybe an easier to achieve path to success for the woman in my scenario would be learning to suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch ball. It would probably take a lot less time and effort than a nursing degree and land just as many doctors with secure futures than a nursing career. Should a girl doing what she has to do be looked down upon for doing it? Some people would think so.

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Originally Posted by docsherm

I am a realist and know that $150 a week is as realistic as a logical Liberal..... not going to happen.

You are correct, that is a full time program and you can do all of that while working and with children. My wife did while I was deploying all of the time. Clinicals can be done while working full time.

It all has to do a person's level of motivation. I have 4 kids, work full time and my wife and I are still full time students. Why, we want more.

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My experience was different, I got a part time job on top of working full time, going to college and doing the Army Reserve thing, while my first wife wife got her RN.

Around here getting into the program was/is competitive, you start with a class and if you don't progress through with the class, you get dropped from the program. It is a straight through two year shot.

Sure, if you had a job that was flexible enough to shift your hours around you could do it, but not many like that - especially for a single parent family.

The fact is that medical insurance, which is what were talking about doesn't need to be so expensive.

If you make 50,000 a year and are paying 1,200 a month for family health insurance, that is 14,400 nearly 29% of your pay.

Heck, I bet you were one of those guys bitching about having to pay copays for your dependents under TriCare.

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Originally Posted by GH41

Maybe an easier to achieve path to success for the woman in my scenario would be learning to suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch ball. It would probably take a lot less time and effort than a nursing degree and land just as many doctors with secure futures than a nursing career. Should a girl doing what she has to do be looked down upon for doing it? Some people would think so.

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I hang with a lot of very conservative, fairly wealthy folks. One of them was a state representative. One day we were talking about how many kids in our school district are on free or reduced lunch because of what their parents make. Her response 'they need to get better jobs.' She was sincere, she thought it was just that easy. Not a clue.

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Originally Posted by 26 Inf

My experience was different, I got a part time job on top of working full time, going to college and doing the Army Reserve thing, while my first wife wife got her RN.

Around here getting into the program was/is competitive, you start with a class and if you don't progress through with the class, you get dropped from the program. It is a straight through two year shot.

Sure, if you had a job that was flexible enough to shift your hours around you could do it, but not many like that - especially for a single parent family.

The fact is that medical insurance, which is what were talking about doesn't need to be so expensive.

If you make 50,000 a year and are paying 1,200 a month for family health insurance, that is 14,400 nearly 29% of your pay.

Heck, I bet you were one of those guys bitching about having to pay copays for your dependents under TriCare.

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I guess there are different programs in different areas. But my point is simply that it can be done. It just takes a lot of hard work.

As for the cost of medical insurance, it is what it is. If you don't want to pay it don't . Just don't complain about it all of the time. I am not of huge fan of paying taxes. But guess what, I do. And I don't bitch about it all of the time.

FYI, TriCare Prime for Active Duty don't have CoPays, even for dependents. They only thing that AD pays for is Pharmacy and only if they get it outside of a MTF. I am not on TriCare Select for Retired. I have a 20% copay for everything now. I could be on Prime and not have that 20% but I want to bigger network so I pay more.

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Originally Posted by 26 Inf

I hang with a lot of very conservative, fairly wealthy folks. One of them was a state representative. One day we were talking about how many kids in our school district are on free or reduced lunch because of what their parents make. Her response 'they need to get better jobs.' She was sincere, she thought it was just that easy. Not a clue.

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I really don't get this mentality. If you want more work hard and get it. Or are you saying t that some people are just too stupid to do this? It can really only be one of two ways:

1. All people are capable of advancing and those that don't are lazy.

2. Not all people are capable of advancing because some are too stupid.

I guess that there could be a #3. Some people blame everyone else to cover up the fact that they are inferior to those that are successful to try and make themselves feel better. But the reality is that is just a variation of #2.

The reality is that in the US there are so many possibilities that a person is only limited to their own imagination and drive.

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Originally Posted by docsherm

I really don't get this mentality. If you want more work hard and get it. Or are you saying t that some people are just too stupid to do this? It can really only be one of two ways:

1. All people are capable of advancing and those that don't are lazy.

2. Not all people are capable of advancing because some are too stupid.

I guess that there could be a #3. Some people blame everyone else to cover up the fact that they are inferior to those that are successful to try and make themselves feel better. But the reality is that is just a variation of #2.

The reality is that in the US there are so many possibilities that a person is only limited to their own imagination and drive.

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I know plenty of people who work hard and can barely if not at all get buy. The world isn't as black and white as you think it is.

Medicare sucks a big one first of all, my mother was on it for a long time while disabled. Secondly the Medicare for all idea doesn't fix the real problem which is the medical system is geared not towards the patient but towards making as much money as it can. We as Americans pay more and receive less quality healthcare then the rest of 1st world countries. What we pay for a procedure and what the real cost is has is so out of wack it's unreal.

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Originally Posted by docsherm

I really don't get this mentality. If you want more work hard and get it. Or are you saying t that some people are just too stupid to do this? It can really only be one of two ways:

1. All people are capable of advancing and those that don't are lazy. You certainly see things in black and white don't you?

2. Not all people are capable of advancing because some are too stupid. And God said the stupid are to be taken advantage of, right?

I guess that there could be a #3. Some people blame everyone else to cover up the fact that they are inferior to those that are successful to try and make themselves feel better. But the reality is that is just a variation of #2.

The reality is that in the US there are so many possibilities that a person is only limited to their own imagination and drive.

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At this point you are just spouting the 'anyone can be President' dogma.