How do you feel about frug sniffing dogs being used to search your vehicle?

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Originally Posted by gunnerblue

There have been numerous challenges. Some states, Montana for instance, require a warrant to search a vehicle based on a canine alert.

The motor vehicle exception does not apply to residences as far as canine use is concerned.

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I can only reference the State of New Mexico. Here, when it comes to firearms, your vehicle is considered an extension of your home. That means firearms can be in the open or hidden in the vehicle. So any search turning up a gun in the vehicle is no issue, unlike the mention above regarding a pile of non-serial numbered antiques. Just from personal observation, it is rare to see any traffic stop here involving Officer Dog sniffing around. Maybe I watch too much Live PD, but fido is used a lot in other States.

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Originally Posted by Arik

I still don't get it. Sorry. If I didn't do it there's no way any police officer in the world is going to convince me otherwise.

The example you gave of the officer saying he saw you buy drugs... Yeah....not going to work because I don't do drugs, I didn't buy drugs, I don't buy drugs, I've never bought drugs, Ive never even seen drugs outside of a TV show. I don't have any criminal history and I don't even have run ins with police. just last month I got pulled over for forgetting to renew my registration. Prior to that I was last pulled over at least a decade ago. So he's not going to convince me otherwise, not even to second guess myself. If he wants to search my car he'll need a warrant.

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You don't understand how a person who has never done drugs might get confused when an officer says he just saw them buying drugs? Honest folks don't think like criminals, they tend to want to help police officers figure out a misunderstanding. Not every person walking around is as savy as you.

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Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

You don't understand how a person who has never done drugs might get confused when an officer says he just saw them buying drugs? Honest folks don't think like criminals, they tend to want to help police officers figure out a misunderstanding. Not every person walking around is as savy as you.

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Unpopular opinion but the folks going out of their way (including command staff pushing it) everyday to purposely hang paper on folks whenever possible do more damage to the profession than the blatantly corrupt ones. At least the latter group can get sent packing.


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I have watched a few episodes of Americas Top Dog competition and many of those trained police K9s are wrong as much as or more than they are right when it comes to detecting contraband. It seems slightly more accurate that water witching.

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Originally Posted by flenna

Judges, lawyers and DA's are all one happy family. When GS court was in they'd all have lunch together. We'd come back from recess and somehow they would all have deals worked out so everyone could go home at 5pm.

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Having been the occasional witness in court, I'm gonna quote this for TRUTH.

It's incredibly easy for a K9 handler to manufacture PC for a vehicle search. The dog doesn't even need to give a final response during the sniff, the handler can simply say the dog showed a "behavior change" and that's all they need to search your vehicle.

This video is a good example of a unscrupulous K9 handler using the aforementioned tactic to manufacture PC.

https://www.facebook.com/conflictk9/...type=2&theater

I've made my thoughts on this topic pretty clear here in the past, but to reiterate...

Canine manufactured PC is bullshit
Police fishing expeditions are bullshit
Asset forfeiture is bullshit
The war on frugs is bullshit
Lazy judges and DAs that would rather get to their tee time than do their jobs are bullshit
Lazy bullshit cops that smell weed coming out of literally every vehicle they encounter are bullshit

These things all reward overzealous departments with financial windfalls which perpetuates a cycle of corruption and abuse of power. This, then, makes the citizenry distrustful of police.

I'm an over 40 white guy who works hard, follows the law, and pays his taxes. I'm at the point that I avoid cops like the plague and would only voluntarily interact with law enforcement if it was a literal life and death situation, because I do not believe that I would be treated fairly by whoever responded.

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Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

The difference is if a cop is lying in order to find out where a kidnapped girl is currently located vs. if a cop is lying because he already decided he thinks you are guilty and is just trying to jam you up as best he can vs. if a cop is lying because the person he is talking to is a habitual known offender who he strongly believes is in possession of large quantities of drugs, weapons or other illegal items.

If you are the father of the girl who was kidnapped, NOBODY is going to give a shit if somebody scams some dirtbag into believing the police already know more than they do and they just need the last details and are willing to give the dirtbag some consideration if he fills in the blanks.

If you are the guy on the side of the road who really DID NOT do what a police officer obviously believes you did, you are going to care very much about the fact that a cop lied to you to confuse you and see if you would implicate yourself.

But if the same cop is gaming a known gang banger / drug dealer and manages to get the guy to consent to a search or otherwise implicate himself and he's sitting on a trunk full of drugs, guns and other illegals shit...well he's probably the only one who cares.

When you talk to police officers and it is in relation to a possible serious crime, they really aren't trying to help you, they are mostly deciding if you meet the criteria to be arrested or not.

And yeah, you can bet when you are dealing with the FBI, it will not be a level playing field. This is nothing new.

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Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

You don't understand how a person who has never done drugs might get confused when an officer says he just saw them buying drugs? Honest folks don't think like criminals, they tend to want to help police officers figure out a misunderstanding. Not every person walking around is as savy as you.

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So, the LEO lies about watching you buy from one of his undercovers, you are savy enough to call his bluff. Everyone gets a good laugh and just walks away? Nevermind the complete undermining of public goodwill? Deralict of their oath to the public?

I get his name and badge number to report his BS and guess what, the Union steps in and tells us how tough of a job they got and all the other sob stories. I get it, they deal with scum bags, but treat J.Q. Public with the same perspective. Because we are all just one bad answer away from getting our cars sniffed up by fido.

Honest folks keep their eyes wide open and see this type of tripe for what is...complete BS. That continually gets covered up by other officers, Unions and than the STATE.

I have been pulled over multiple times, because I do volunteer work, in BAD neighborhoods in NOLA. I have had my share of run ins with NOPD....POST Consent Decree! White dude, driving through the 8th and 9th wards...I have heard all the BS lines. Had fido jump on my truck, not because it got a hit, but rather it was instructed. Been cuffed, because I did the LEO's the courtesy of knowing I had firearm in the truck...you know, officer safety. After I told you there was a pistol? That all but gives them necessary "suspicion" to cuff you and search your vehicle, eventhough my vehicle is an extension of my home in this state.
Of course they say they smell weed or they see a ziploc bag with CheezIt crumbs ledt from my son and think Im free basing heroin.

The crazy goes on and on, but we the people have no real recourse.

I get real nervous when I see ANY dog, LE or not--I just have one of those miswires that naturally brings out even Lassie's inner Cujo. So, unless and until your four-footed friend and I have established some rapport, please kindly keep either some hard barrier or five feet of distance with solid restraint between Fido and myself.

A Norwegian elkhound trying to rip your face off at three years old tends to have interesting and long-lasting effects on you...

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Originally Posted by kerplode

I've made my thoughts on this topic pretty clear here in the past, but to reiterate...

Canine manufactured PC is bullshit
Police fishing expeditions are bullshit
Asset forfeiture is bullshit
The war on frugs is bullshit
Lazy judges and DAs that would rather get to their tee time than do their jobs are bullshit
Lazy bullshit cops that smell weed coming out of literally every vehicle they encounter are bullshit

These things all reward overzealous departments with financial windfalls which perpetuates a cycle of corruption and abuse of power. This, then, makes the citizenry distrustful of police.

I'm an over 40 white guy who works hard, follows the law, and pays his taxes. I'm at the point that I avoid cops like the plague and would only voluntarily interact with law enforcement if it was a literal life and death situation, because I do not believe that I would be treated fairly by whoever responded.

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This pretty much sums it up.