Boeing's "Future Attack Recon Aircraft" candidate revealed

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Originally Posted by Diamondback

Looks like a more streamlined RAH-66 Comanche. At that rate they might as well just dust off and update the existing engineering... Raider looks like somebody dialed up the old Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne in the Wayback Machine, added Kamov-style contra-rotating main rotors and turned it into a 4-seater version.

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There's way more to the advancing blade concept dual rotor system than just having contra-rotating rotors...

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Originally Posted by caporider

There's way more to the advancing blade concept dual rotor system than just having contra-rotating rotors...

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True... main thing I find curious is they're using the same "High Maneuverability" illustrations and talking points as Lockheed did on Cheyenne, which was scrapped when it was found that all that maneuverability and close-combat engagement brought it RIGHT into the kill-boxes for the early MANPADS.

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Originally Posted by caporider

There's way more to the advancing blade concept dual rotor system than just having contra-rotating rotors...

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And for the non savvy folks in the back this stuff includes?


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Originally Posted by Slater

Bell's offering looks like it falls in with the others:

https://www.bellflight.com/products/bell-360

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Ooooo the INVICTUS

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Originally Posted by jpmuscle

And for the non savvy folks in the back this stuff includes?


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Two big ones are:

- rigid rotors so they can be spaced much closer than semi-rigid/teetering rotors (lower profile, shorter control runs, etc)
- offloading retreating rotors so they don't suffer from retreating blade stall

ABC + prop allows for much higher speeds than traditional helicopters and much better hover characteristics than tiltrotors. You can actually do pitchless forward flight OR maintain a specific pitch attitude during forward flight. Plus, the prop can go full reverse to act as a gigantic speed brake to bring the helo to a stop very quickly.

Quite frankly, if Boeing can't do this by now, they need to up their game. I mean, Kenner showed us the way in 1985:

https://www.lulu-berlu.com/upload/im...663-grande.jpg

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Originally Posted by Slater

All these different options and I'm confident that, somehow, the Army will manage to screw it all up.

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They already did once by killing the Kiowa and insisting the AH-64E could do the same thing. I think they realize how badly they screwed up with that, so I think this program will be a go - whether it ends up as something useful is to be determined.

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Originally Posted by Grand58742

Quite frankly, if Boeing can't do this by now, they need to up their game. I mean, Kenner showed us the way in 1985:

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I saw a wind-tunnel prototype of a new Apache concept that is pretty much this thing with a push prop and stub main rotor blades. Similar, I think, to what caporider above is talking about. Found it:

Attachment 61165

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Originally Posted by Slater

In fact, Lockheed Martin/Sikorsky's candidate is going with a .50 cal weapon:

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us...elicopter.html

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They're also listing 7.62 mm (.30 cal) in the specifications.

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Originally Posted by sundance435

They already did once by killing the Kiowa and insisting the AH-64E could do the same thing. I think they realize how badly they screwed up with that, so I think this program will be a go - whether it ends up as something useful is to be determined.



I saw a wind-tunnel prototype of a new Apache concept that is pretty much this thing with a push prop and stub main rotor blades. Similar, I think, to what caporider above is talking about. Found it:

Attachment 61165

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Actually, that's a 1980s or '90s design study for a navalized "Sea Apache." The resemblance to Cheyenne, whose collapse made Apache necessary, is uncanny.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_AH-56_Cheyenne

Problem with Longbow-replacing-Kiowa is Longbow's sensor suite is radar, while Kiowa's "eyeball" is optical/IR.

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Originally Posted by sundance435

They already did once by killing the Kiowa and insisting the AH-64E could do the same thing. I think they realize how badly they screwed up with that, so I think this program will be a go - whether it ends up as something useful is to be determined.



I saw a wind-tunnel prototype of a new Apache concept that is pretty much this thing with a push prop and stub main rotor blades. Similar, I think, to what caporider above is talking about. Found it:

Attachment 61165

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Sorry, but if Boeing can't come up with an attack helicopter that transforms into a jet fighter and has lasers shooting out of the skids, why have they been wasting our time for decades?