Those wacky Iranian's at it again....

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05-11-20, 18:10
SteyrAUG

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABNAK

Yep. They could kill thousands and I'd just cheer (and laugh). Fvck Iran.

This will sound weird BUT if we had killed them in a legit engagement, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. But somewhere on that boat were a probably a few that despite growing up in a terrorist state had never really hurt anyone and believed they were doing their duty and I hate to see anyone die for no reason, especially if they don't have it coming.

For years we were prepared to kill the Russians, but I never really hated the Russians, their leaders yes...but individual soldiers who had killed nobody through direct or indirect action...not really.
05-11-20, 19:44
ABNAK

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

This will sound weird BUT if we had killed them in a legit engagement, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. But somewhere on that boat were a probably a few that despite growing up in a terrorist state had never really hurt anyone and believed they were doing their duty and I hate to see anyone die for no reason, especially if they don't have it coming.

For years we were prepared to kill the Russians, but I never really hated the Russians, their leaders yes...but individual soldiers who had killed nobody through direct or indirect action...not really.

While I'm sure some 18yo kid got killed while serving Allah, he was nonetheless part of the armed forces of an adversary. I won't weep to be sure.

I would give a much higher probability of some 18yo conscript buying into the whole Muslim thing (i.e. wild-eyed fanaticism) in Iran than I ever would of a Soviet kid during the Cold War wholeheartedly embracing communism. Hence my lack of hand-wringing, however "cold" that may sound.
05-11-20, 23:33
SteyrAUG

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABNAK

While I'm sure some 18yo kid got killed while serving Allah, he was nonetheless part of the armed forces of an adversary. I won't weep to be sure.

I would give a much higher probability of some 18yo conscript buying into the whole Muslim thing (i.e. wild-eyed fanaticism) in Iran than I ever would of a Soviet kid during the Cold War wholeheartedly embracing communism. Hence my lack of hand-wringing, however "cold" that may sound.

Guess what I'm saying is this.

It's unavoidable to have "bad seeds" even in our military. No matter what we do, we eventually get some guy who is such a complete psychopath he breezes through any kind of evaluation and before long does something so bad the word "war crime" somehow doesn't completely describe it.

By the same token, even in fatalistic theocracies like Iran, they are going to get someone who is essentially "good" and no amount of "submit all to allah" or "death to the USA and Israel" is going to make him a bad person and he will give what he considers faithful service but no more.

And I have more compassion for their anomaly than I do ours. Killed by accident is a horrible way for a man to die, especially if he has dedicated his life to the service of his country and does so by an honorable standard. Now for all I know, everyone who died was a potential "kill em all for allah" POS, but not too many generations ago Iran was our friend so I know it's possible for people to be normal.

Wish I could push a button and all of the predatory psychopaths across the world would simply disappear and then the normal people could simply get on with trying to live our lives. It wouldn't be a perfect world of no problems but it would be an improvement.
05-12-20, 10:37
AndyLate

I definitely get SteyrAUG's point. I am sure the Iranian military is conscripted, they are not some fanatical ISIS volunteers from around the world. The Iranian military does not drive international policy any more than the U.S. military does.

Nonetheless, I would rather they shoot their own ships than ours.

Andy
05-12-20, 22:00
HardToHandle

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyLate

I definitely get SteyrAUG's point. I am sure the Iranian military is conscripted, they are not some fanatical ISIS volunteers from around the world. The Iranian military does not drive international policy any more than the U.S. military does.

Nonetheless, I would rather they shoot their own ships than ours.

I am with Andy. Dying without a good reason like this is a sad story for the Iranian mothers.

This unfortunate story is a propaganda coup for the Western theme. We saw the tragic Ukrainian airliner shot down over Tehran during a US airstrike, killing a lot of young Iranian expats because of poor command and control in January. Barely five months later, a SSM is pickled into a target tug, again indicating a profoundly weak capability for the most basic of naval activities.

Iran’s theocracy has been exporting geopolitical jackassery since the Revolution while failing at home. They left Lebanon a stumbling disaster, are still destroying the Yemen and have been murdering assorted Israelis hither and yon. The Iranian people are not blind to the rotting condition of their nation nor who is to blame. This unfortunate loss of sailors’ lives reinforces the narrative of the what is wrong.
05-12-20, 23:34
SteyrAUG

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyLate

I definitely get SteyrAUG's point. I am sure the Iranian military is conscripted, they are not some fanatical ISIS volunteers from around the world. The Iranian military does not drive international policy any more than the U.S. military does.

Nonetheless, I would rather they shoot their own ships than ours.

Andy

While no question if it's them or us I'm voting for them. But good people exist everywhere no matter how horrible a state tries to make them and I don't wish a pointless death on anyone innocent, especially someone who is just trying to serve. If you are a terrorist, a fanatic or a psychopath who only contributes to the misery of the world...please die on fire and take your time about it.

I forget who but I was reading somebodies memoirs of Iwo Jima and you would be hard pressed to find a more fanatical, determined "wants to die and kill everyone in the process" enemy than the Japanese (especially when it was becoming obvious they were losing) and the Marines were pretty much "kill all of the SOBs they have it coming" but when they were checking bodies for papers and one guy had a picture of "wife and kid" in his helmet liner, even those Marines were quiet for a few moments. It's not that they felt bad for killing him, it's just they understood something most soldiers understand.
05-13-20, 01:18
1168

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyLate

I definitely get SteyrAUG's point. I am sure the Iranian military is conscripted, they are not some fanatical ISIS volunteers from around the world. The Iranian military does not drive international policy any more than the U.S. military does.

Nonetheless, I would rather they shoot their own ships than ours.

Andy

Agreed. I’m not throwing a party over some kids dying. Not super sad about it either.
05-13-20, 01:35
Uni-Vibe

It can happen to anybody. Remember Grenada? US Navy and Army had radios that couldn't communicate. Navy shelled US ground troops.
05-13-20, 01:39
1168

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

I forget who but I was reading somebodies memoirs of Iwo Jima and you would be hard pressed to find a more fanatical, determined "wants to die and kill everyone in the process" enemy than the Japanese (especially when it was becoming obvious they were losing) and the Marines were pretty much "kill all of the SOBs they have it coming" but when they were checking bodies for papers and one guy had a picture of "wife and kid" in his helmet liner, even those Marines were quiet for a few moments. It's not that they felt bad for killing him, it's just they understood something most soldiers understand.

Not the same, but years ago I relieved a guy of a rifle and some mags, after ensuring he could no longer use them. The sling has a name on it in Arabic. I thought it was a cool trophy at the time and put it on an AK when I got home, along with one of the mags. I can’t even touch that weapon anymore. It just sits in the back of a safe. Bothers me to even look at it. Too personal.
05-13-20, 09:18
The_War_Wagon

The initial report yesterday was an "shipboard accident." I figured the monkeys blew it up, trying to hammer a fuse into a torpedo. :jester:

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