M193 vs 9mm JHP cost vs effectiveness, other factors...

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Originally Posted by Harpoon

I know there are lots of reports of M855 penciling right thru people, but it frags all over the place in gel test shots. Of course humans are not made of ballistic gelatin.

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Shooting them up close, it shuts dudes down fast. Generally. Further out, it is more barrel length and random chance dependent.

Edit: please don’t take this anecdote as an endorsement.

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Originally Posted by zack991

I have been happy using it for a simple training round as well as a basic self defense load. I like the black hills 77grain round they offer for my go to war kit. I hate the green tip crap everyone talks up. We had issues with it overseas just zipping through and not doing much damage to the targets.

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In the Corps we didn’t have that issue with green tip. We we using A4’s though and then went to MK318 SOST which is even better. Green tip is fine out of a 16+ inch barrel

You are both correct in observations of M855.

Search terms: AOA and fleet yaw

I read a comment earlier today that made consider armor.

It seems most people who wear it during unrest, etc. wear plates.

The thinking used to be that because more people were wearing Kevlar, use a rifle round.

But now I think if the opponent isnt wearing armor a pistol / PCC / shotgun can do the job well enough, as before. If they are wearing armor, its probably plates that stop / deflect most pistol, rifle, PCC, and shotgun projectiles.

It other words I think rifle vs PCC / shotgun is a slightly narrower debate than before. More so when you factor the price of .223 vs 9mm for training.

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Originally Posted by Ron3

I read a comment earlier today that made consider armor.

It seems most people who wear it during unrest, etc. wear plates.

The thinking used to be that because more people were wearing Kevlar, use a rifle round.

But now I think if the opponent isnt wearing armor a pistol / PCC / shotgun can do the job well enough, as before. If they are wearing armor, its probably plates that stop / deflect most pistol, rifle, PCC, and shotgun projectiles.

It other words I think rifle vs PCC / shotgun is a slightly narrower debate than before. More so when you factor the price of .223 vs 9mm for training.

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a lot of rifle rounds will easily go through steel plates , and most criminals aren't wearing NIJ lvl4 ceramics

also rifles/PCCs/shotguns are all easier to aim and make it much easier to hit the head or belt line of a target vs a pistol