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Surefire Can = $$$
I've got a 10.5" SBR. So, naturally, I'm thinking of a can for it:D. I want something compact, but also something that will last and of course, is reasonably quiet. I'd probably put 1000-2000 rounds a year through it. I know it ain't that much, but I don't want to buy a can (at any price) only to replace it 5 years down the line!
I saw the Surefire FA-212 at a dealer's here in town. It looked like what the Dr. ordered. Dealer said it was built like a tank. Then I saw the $1399 price tag. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
I can't spend that much, and if that's what it takes then I'm out of the can market.
I've been more seriously looking at the M4-02 Gemtech Pirhana, SRT Typhoon, SWR Wolverine, and the AAC Ranger 2. They are all compact and more economically priced. QD is not an issue or necessity for me. Will any of these stand up to semi-auto use over the years, and be reasonably quiet?
Before I get flooded with the "I'd marry my AAC if I could." I'm not big on AAC for the following reasons:
1) Too many people floating around the boards with ties to the company trumping up their products.
2) Their ads in the magazines compare an actual picture of a competitor's can as compared to a computer generated image of their own. I think that's dishonest.
3) The youtube video of an AAC guy "testing" a Gemtech can. He doesn't test it side by side with an AAC can, and it's not an independent test (even if an independent observer was present. Even if it's all legit, why do this.? If Gemtech sucks, we'll all know and find out from the owners. Why trash other products? Why not torture test your own can and show that it stands the test.
4) THIS IS THE BIGGEST ONE. I was at the range and there was a guy who had both a YHM Phantom and an AAC M42000. THEY SOUNDED EXACTLY THE SAME WITH THREE TYPES OF AMMO!! May a meter could tell you one or the other was a few decibles in difference. That ain't worth the price difference to me. Maybe the AAC is tougher and will last longer, I hope so. Other than that the only difference was that the AAC can looked cooler and had a cooler FH.
If you have had a good experience with the AAC Ranger in terms of it compared to other cans or how well it stood up for the long haul (AND YOU DON"T WORK FOR THEM, ARE AFFILIATED WITH THEM OR HAVE SOLD THEM A SILENCER DESIGN). I'd like to hear it. Real info please, no peacock comments.
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M4-2000 is the way to go for what you're doing... regardless of AAC's nonsense and often childish shinannigans.
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How about an Ops Inc? They should be around $800-$900 too.
Also, if you ask the right SF dealers, that $1399 can from Surefire might be in the same range?
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Also, with that stuff being said, AAC is probably offering the best value for your money in a suppressor. If you completely discount their online antics in the past, the suppressors they make seem pretty damn good at each price point.
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First, the $1399 price is $9 dollars over FULL RETAIL. We offer some good discounts on SF cans (by the way).
The SureFire K can is what I run and like the best.
With that said, the AAC M42K, Mod 8 (or whatever the current mod is) is a fantastic value IMHO. I also have the AAC Blackout (556) and think that is a VERY high quality can as well (little long and heavy for an SBR though).
Stick with AAC and SF and I think you will be very happy with your can.
C4
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/...e/_32Y6167.jpg
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+1 of the SF 556k can...
I bought mine from Grant over a year ago and it has been great! His price is nicely below the RRP BTW.
AAC is dumping a lot into advertising how pretty their welds are...in all seriousness, I have seen (not shot the AAC) and from all I hear from those that own them, it would also be a good alternative...It comes in within a hundred or two.
My $.02,
If you are dumping the $$$$ into a can and stamp, you may as well own the best. I like my Charles Daly M4LE, but love my Noveske's! I like my Burwell M&P45's and love my Ed Browns. Go with the best and never have a regret.
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I was in this dilemma about a year ago. I contacted Grant he was very helpful and he offers the Surefire can at a great price. However, I ended up with an AAC M4 2000 Mod 8 and I have been very pleased. I use it on a 10.5" SBR.
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"I would marry my AAC if I could...". :)
Seriously though, AAC is they way to go IMHO. I have an M2K and M1K, both with more rounds on them in six months that you would shoot in 2 -3 years. They work as advertised, computer image of the welds on the ad or not. Honestly I really don't care about the internet shenanigans thing. In addition to product quality and performance, I do care about stuff like customer service - do they answer phone or e-mails, do they go the extra mile to make things right, etc. AAC does do that better than anyone else out there in addition to building a top-notch, durable product at a fair price.
Another issue is will the company be around in a few years of you need repair work. Smaller outfits like LRM, Johns Guns etc. are small one-man or few man shops that may not be around in a few years compared to a larger outfit that is fulfilling civilian and military orders, etc. I don't see AAC, SF, AWC, or Gemtech going out of business anytime soon.
I would stay away from Ops Inc as their customer service is lacking - they are sometimes hard to get ahold of and they cannot give you a straight answer on when they are going to build or fix something for you. I placed an order with them for two center fire cans and patiently waited two years for them to build it. I would call every few months and if they answered the phone they could never give me a straight answer. I canceled after two years and went elsewhere where the vendor actually had a clue regarding their production schedule.
Gemtech is quick to answer the phones and take care of customers, but their products are overpriced for what you get IMHO. Quality varies from can to can as well. They and AWC build good stuff but their designs are a bit dated and they prefer to rest on their laurels rather than invest to build cutting edge products.
I am just a user, never worked for any suppressor company or designed anything. I own cans from AAC, KAC, Gemtech, QSM, AWC and John's Guns. If given a choice I would take KAC over anything else because their stuff is the most durable on th emarket, but usually costs more and is heavy. Did I say their stuff is heavy as well?? :)
AAC makes stuff that is the best compromise between effectiveness, weight, length, and customer service/support.
SCL
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Just my thoughts, base on my needs, and what I feel is important:
When selecting a suppressor, point of impact shift, type of mount, weight, and length of the suppressor are my main concerns. Cost and noise reduction are the lowest on my list of concerns.
When noise reduction is mentioned, a lot of guys will make a mountain over a mole hill in reference to a couple decibels. As long as the suppressor doesn't seem loud to me and I can shoot it without hearing protection, I'm good to go.
1) Point of Impact Shift - Something that I did not realize when I purchased my first suppressor was how much a suppressor effects the point of impact of the host gun. I had a quick detach suppressor that changed the point of impact around 4" (low and to the right) at 50 yards.
I want the ability to put the can on the gun or remove it and not have to worry about have 2 different zero's for the same gun. With or without the can, the gun should have the same point of impact.
I needed a quick detach system because there are times when I don't want to use a suppressor (ie. vehicle ops, high round count training classes, etc) and times where I want to use a suppressor (ie. serving warrants small houses, trailers, apartments, etc).
With the Surefire 556k suppressor, using an Aimpoint and Aimpoint with 3x Magnifier, I can't tell a difference in point of impact shift. Surefire states that their can will effect the point of impact less than 1 MOA at 100 yards. I can't tell a difference in my zero with or without the can on the gun.
2) Mounting system - Without getting too complex, basically there are two different types of mounting systems.
a) Quick Detach systems = the can mounts to a flash hider type mount and can easily be installed and uninstalled
b) Barrel thread system = these are suppressors that mount directly to the barrels threads. I would only use this type of can if I were going to mount it on the gun and leave it on the gun. The Gem-Tech M4-02 is a good example of a barrel thread mounting system design: http://www.gem-tech.com/M4-02.html
When shooting with a suppressor mounted to the gun, not only will you notice that the gun get's hotter quicker, but it also get's dirtier quicker and burns off lube quicker.
Something to consider if getting a quick detach system. One of the areas that attracts carbon build up is the mounting area of the suppressor, and on most quick detach suppressors some level of cleaning and lubrication to the mounting system are required. I had a Quick Detach system several years ago, where the quick detach system within the suppressor would lock up due to carbon build up with only a couple hundred rounds and I would have to send the suppressor back to the manufacturer to get the quick detach system back in working order.
The Surefire's mounting system is pretty durable, less likely to get stuck, and even if it does get stuck, you just loosen the locking ring, fire a couple rounds through the gun and it will loosen the can. The mounting system of the 556k was another feature that I considered when looking for a new suppressor.
If you don't NEED a Quick Detach system, you may want to consider something like a Gem-Tech M4-02 which mounts directly to the barrel threads. Mount it and leave it. No point of impact shift to worry about, etc.
The M4-02 sells for approxiamtely $525. The Surefire is approximatley $1,300 and it does not come with a mount, mounts are around $100 (depending which one you get). So that's around $1,400. The M4-02 is almost 1/3rd the price.
If you don't NEED a quick detach system, but you want the ability to shoot the SBR with and without the suppressor. One option to explore would be to get 2 identical uppers for the same SBR lower. Mount the M4-02 on one upper, and no suppressor on the other.
3) Weight - Weight is always a concern with suppressors. 5oz or 8oz may not sound like much, but when that weight is at the end of your barrel (furthest away from the center of gravity of the gun) the extra weight feels heavier and is much more noticable than if that weight was located at the center of the gun.
4) Length - Length also needs to be considered as it effects the compactness of the overall package. Added length can also magnify the weight of the suppressor.
Surefire 556k suppressor:
- Weight of just the suppressor: 16.06 ounces (just a hair over a pound)
- Length of just the suppressor: 6 and 1/4 inches
- Overall length when mounted to a 11.5" barrel: 17 and 1/4 inches
For reference I measured a Bravo Company 16" mid-lenght barrel with a USGI A2 flash hider mounted on it and it was just under 1/8" longer than the 11.5" barrel with the Surefire 556k suppressor.
For me, the Surefire 556k suited my needs better than other cans I had researched.
If I had to go out and buy another suppressor today I would purchase another Surefire 556k
I got my 556k from Grant a couple years ago and his price was much better than the advertised price......Don't know if that is still the case or not.....wouldn't hurt to check if you are in the market for a 556k.
Figure out the following and get the best suppressor that fits within these parameters
1) How much do you want to spend
2) What are your needs
3) What features are most important and least important to you (ie. is sound reduction more important or is lack of impact shift more important)
Same gun with and without the 556k:
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...R/DPP_0020.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/k...R/DPP_0018.jpg
Good luck
S/F,
Jeff
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No Bananas, you will get what you pay for.
Yes, the AAC is probably a decent value for the price, but personally, I would own either a KAC, SF or a Jet.
I had a KAC (OHG for the HK Mk23) and really liked it (hated the trigger on the pistol). I found though that you could start to hear a decrease in the db reduction after 3~400 rounds, unless you cleaned it. Minor thing IMO. Built like the proverbial tank and weighed like one.
Haven't owned a SF, but did talk to a guy that had one issued to him while we were at a training class. Based on what he told me of his and his team mates experiences, I would consider it had I not purchased a Jet.
I know the folks at Jet (full disclosure), but other than that I have no affiliation to them. They build a very neat suppressor called the "Warthog". Titanium, robust, maybe just a bit heavy and priced right there with the other two. But, very quiet. Surprisingly quiet (first hand experience). Friends of mine on our local PD love them and recommend them (that's where I first heard about them).
A friend of mine has an OPSINC and likes it, but it's the only one he owns. Have to agree with another poster, they can be hard to locate and communicate with (again, first hand experience). Of course KAC has much the same reputation.
In short, you said you expected to only expend 1~2k rounds/year (bet you'll shoot a lot more than that once you actually get a suppressor). If that's truly all you expect to use it (almost a novelty item), then AAC just might be the best deal. If you think you might be doing some serious round counts suppressed, then I'd really think hard about one of the other ones.
One last thing, don't put much stock into "numbers". There's a lot more to it than that. And the data can be manipulated to fit. The folks on the cutting edge technology wise, are playing around with frequency shift. Physics involved with expanding gases can only do so much within a practical sized package. In other words, yes, you could make a suppressor so quiet such that a sub-sonic round could not be heard at all, but it's not very practical to attach something the size of a small car to the end of a barrel.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.