Let me know I will go with you.
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Ive been searching the i-net for a while and this site but havent found any answers to my question which is, does ANYBODY know a M16/M4 Armorers Course available to civs ?? I'm what you would call a tinkerer and like to know my tools inside and out and how to fix/trouble shoot/replace parts, but every course ive found is only LE/Gov't/Military only, any info appreciated
Contact Greg Sullivan (SULLY) at Defensive Edge
http://www.slr15.com/
When I did the course last year, DC did demonstrate (with a loose barrel) removing and re-installing the barrel but it was quite difficult in doing so without a bench vise. He picked two biggest guys in the class to hold it down. He explained it IS very difficult to remove to the point where his entire body was virtually off the floor. So for those expecting to remove and re-install a barrel in an armorer course, don't be disappointed if this is not done for this reason.
thanks for the info guys, ill look into them
The Colt AC is a basic, entry-level, Colt-centric, course for Colt customers. It's geared toward those who will maintain factory produced guns in a LE setting. The overwhelming majority of LE maintainers take care of a relatively few guns that remain in service a long time. As usual, they're usually used little, but beat around much in that time. Maintenance tasks are focused there. When buying a factory built Colt rifle/carbine for LE service, there's little to no need to ever remove the barrel. It isn't rocket science of course, but it isn't legos, either.
To that end, the AC accomplishes what it sets out to do and meets the needs of the target audience.
More important than rebarreling is what's also missing from the Colt AC: better instruction in diagnostics and PM. The course hasn't evolved from the core basic parts assembly and interaction as much as it should. Some instructors do more than others. Some of this is attributable to it being Colt-centric. There isn't as compelling a need to delve into all the minutiae as with others, as there will be comparatively fewer issues than with good-as.
I've always felt that the current curriculum could be compressed down to 2 days for the information that is taught. If the AC was broken out into "Semi-Auto LE Carbine", and then select-fire variants, it could be an 8 hour day each.
The equipment... Even the instructors are critical of the factory failure to maintain the tool sets, keeping guns that disassemble themselves, the low tech text-based manuals, and the other stuff folks have complained about.
Students share some responsibility here too.
Many do no homework in advance before enrolling in a class, establish no context or perspective for the class, and not expectedly, leave disappointed with their expectations unfulfilled. Requesting advanced copies of curriculum to review, or talking to previous course coordinators, to review is a foreign concept to most. Some will make the effort to come to the internet to get their info, which will range from excellent to worthless.
Also, in every class, students are handed critique forms with which to provide feedback to course managers. Having read through a number of them, few do anything but check "Good" or "Excellent." Getting meaningul contemplative feedback is pretty rare. How many have ever called the head of a training division or VP to discuss their feedback? If folks went to the effort to tell the factory what they tell the internet in the AARs they post, we might see better courses.
Further, let's be realistic about ourselves and fellow students. The AC is a basic class geared to the lowest-common-denominator LE maintainer of Colt product. The classes won't be populated with a majority of HSLD, or even above average folks, they'll be mostly plain joe part-changers. The bar is low, and the class is designed to be passed. Telling many of them "don't do that, don't mess with that, you don't need to do that" might be the best advice they can receive. If using the house brand, it's often true, too.
All this isn't to condemn or defend the AC, but it is what it is. Shop smart for your training, and as always, caveat emptor. Folks like Dean Caputo, Sully, and others have developed their own programs to meet the needs of others. Take every course you can.
Well said, Skintop911.
IMO, the scope of the Colt AC is to cover 90% of the info that 90% of the users are going to see 90% of the time.
The problem I experienced was that there was a lot of time spent covering things such as differences between specific Colt models that could have been spent covering other things. If I want to know what model uses what pins, either I'll look at one, or I'll pull the manual on it.
From the AARs that I've read, Dean's class is briefer and he teaches what he thinks guys REALLY need to know. He does accept non-LE/Mil students if the hosting agency allows.
When I took the AC from Ken, he was considering an advanced class that addressed barrels, and lots and lots of atypical stoppages.
As to typical stoppages, the typical causes and remedies were covered:
-Faulty ammo
-Faulty mags
-Incorrect extractor springs and inserts
-loose carrier keys (not a problem for makers that follow the TDP - hint, hint)
It is true that these are the usual causes of the typical stoppages.
As to barrel removal/install, I would have liked the AC to cover this, but it was beyond the scope of the class.
However, there are many resources outside of the class available to all that address this.
And, IIRC, if you buy a barrel from SAW, Ken will install it at no cost (it's been about 4 yrs now, so this may have changed).