Trijicon TR24 & co-witness problem

Many thanks for the confirmation, JHC.

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Originally Posted by JHC

The FSB of your DD rifle won't matter IMO. I have a fixed front sights on several rifles which I commonly use a Nikon 1-4 mounted with a LT-139 SPR-E and even at 1x the front sight is not any distraction at all when you focus on putting your recticle on target.
No worries.

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Same for me with the TR21 and a SPR mount

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Originally Posted by 9Y10C

I had presumed from the marketing statements and reviews on the optic that "true 1x" meant that at the lowest setting all visuals would be actual size and not magnified at any distance.

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As you’ve discovered, the “true 1X magnification” claim parroted by so many on the Internet is incorrect. No worries though, as for all practical purposes, it matters not. The “1X” magnification of the TR24 works great for both-eyes-open shooting. Even if the 1X magnification truly were a “true 1X magnification” in the truest sense of the word, you still wouldn’t be able to co-witness your iron sights through the TR24 as you would not be able to flip-up your rear BUIS with the TR24 properly placed for its eye relief. Also, I have yet to see a single 1-4X variable scope on the market that is a “true 1X magnification.”


reposted

The Ruler of Truth

Pictured below is a view of an Aimpoint M4S with a metal ruler running through its field of view and beyond. Notice that the lines formed by the top and bottom edges of the ruler continue uninterrupted when passing through the Aimpoint’s field of view. Notice that the numbers and graduation marks are the exact same size, both inside the Aimpoint’s field of view and out. This is “true” 1X magnification; that is to say, no magnification at all.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/58pd7y9c7g.jpg


The next view has the ruler running through the field of view of an EOTech HoloSight. Again, the lines of the ruler continue uninterrupted and the ruler remains the exact same size inside the EOTech’s fied of view and out.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/vq6utzjd7i.jpg


Now, let’s apply the Ruler of Truth to what many here have called a “true 1X” optic, the Trijicon Accupoint TR24-R. The magnification ring is set to 1X in the view below.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/jh4aayxniz.jpg



As you can clearly see, the lines formed by the edges of the ruler are shifted when running through the field of view of the TR24-R and the ruler is clearly larger inside the field of view of the TR24-R; that is to say, the ruler is MAGNIFIED.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/r8hyxavoyl.jpg



The Ruler of Truth applied to a NightForce 1- 4 x 24 NXS with the magnification ring set to 1X reveals the same findings.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/1377knqo8b.jpg


http://www.box.net/shared/static/cdpf2qdn1k.jpg




The Ruler of Truth applied to a Short Dot LE with the magnification ring set to 1.1X shows little difference from the NightForce NXS on 1X.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/m7ck5sbbz9.jpg


http://www.box.net/shared/static/en9lqsv308.jpg


In truth, since the “true 1X” scopes are not truly without magnification in the truest sense of the word like an Aimpoint or EOTech, the only thing the truly matters is, can these optics be easily used with human binocular vision; that is, both eyes opened and focused on the target at the same time? The answer is a resounding yes, just as it is with the Short Dot LE at 1.1X magnification.


Focus On The Front Sight


Here's a view of the front sight when looking through an Aimpoint M4S.


http://www.box.net/shared/static/2xkb5uv154.jpg



This view is looking through a NightForce NXS 1-4 x 24 at 1X magnification.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/07belpyc4t.jpg

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Originally Posted by LOKNLOD

What I would like to see, and I think it's feasible, would be to incorporate a small LED into the blackout ring that can be rotated to cover the fiber optic. When turned off, it would still blackout the fiber, and when turned on, it would illuminate the fiber optic no matter the external lighting conditions. I think the light gathering properties of the fiber optic work well enough that the lighting module could be very small lightweight and efficient, especially with the advances made in LEDs lately, and best of all I think it could be done with only a modification to that external ring and no changes to the scope body itself.

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Best idea I've heard in a while.

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Originally Posted by Razorhunter

The absolute ultimate TR24 for me, would be one with the standard TA31 RCO M4 ACOG chevron reticle w/ BDC ladder for various ranges.
...
SO, I am disappointed in the reticle options the TR24 offers.
Otherwise, aside from the reticle options, I love everything else about the TR24 Accupoints.

I just wish Trijicon would put a chevron reticle with the standard BDC ladder design into the TR24's. THEN it would be a WINNER all around, at all distances.
I heard something about the Chevron/BDC reticle not even being possible in the TR24's. Has anyone else heard this?
Can anyone confirm the chevron w/BDC reticle as NOT being physically possible to use in the TR24 Accupoint optics?

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I'm very glad I'm not alone.

Use a MIL reticle (like the TMR, but with more space in the middle) for L/R and Top, and then graft the TA31RCO Triangle/BDC into the middle. This optic would be a true worldbeater, I really hope they can make this.
I wonder if this is in the works, but with a wider range of magnification as well (a 1.1-6x or 1.1-8x)

Seems like a simple matter to keep the TR24 a second focal plane optic and incorporate the triangle/BDC retical for ranging at 4X.