Anyone know the status of IAR?
It was Colt, FN and HK, but now I am hearing HK was eliminated.
Anyone have any additional details?
http://www.defensetech.org/images/H&K-IAR-web.jpg
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Anyone know the status of IAR?
It was Colt, FN and HK, but now I am hearing HK was eliminated.
Anyone have any additional details?
http://www.defensetech.org/images/H&K-IAR-web.jpg
What was it, the Army Times, just reported that the IAR winner would be announced in about three weeks.
Mexico went with the Pony :eek: :cool:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8939/610xhb.jpg
what is it then? :confused:
http://www.defensereview.com/wp-cont...Defense_13.jpg
I hope we do too. The only thing Colt needs to work on is Barrel quality. The 3MOA M4 carbine is a shit std.
We need 1MOA rifles. That technology should not be too much to ask.
Colt claimed it had one of the most accurate piston systems, meaning it didn't throw fliers. Of course the barrel quality would be important here, because the M4 barrel makes every round a flier.
2.5-3MOA is as good as the M4 can shoot. I'd like to see the 3 trigger pull weights leave the system too. The M4 trigger is crap.
1. Even if the M4 was a 0.25MOA gun, you're still shooting 4MOA+ ammo. It's kind of like putting 85 octane gas in your Formula 1 race car and expecting it to perform...it just doesn't work like that.
2. Colt manufactures the M4 to a very specific Technical Data Package (TDP) from which they cannot legally deviate, even to improve the product, unless the customer (the Army) says so. The Army claims to be happier than a clam with the M4 because it's exceeding its specified life cycle by 200-300%, is accurate, reliable, etc. All of these parameters are specified by the Army, and the Colt M4 meets or exceeds them all. Is it as good as it could or should be? Probably not. I think even Colt would make a few changes if given the chance, but their hands are tied.
What Colt piston gun are you talking about? I saw one at SHOT Show a couple years ago, but haven't heard much about it since.
M855 isn't 4MOA ammo. I had a personal upper in 2005 shooting 1MOA at 100 meters. I could hit a 50 cal ammo can with it at 700meters pretty regularly on a calm day.
The M4 from prone with a sandsock, shoots patterns like a shotgun at 100meters ~3-3.5", it's gotta be QC issues and the light profile.
The Colt M4 profile is such that even a perfect barrel from someone like Rock River could probably only hold 1.5MOA under perfect conditions. It's not helping matters at all. The Army has been appealing to the lowest common denominator for too long. It's killing the Army. I'd bet you 10 soldiers in a 100 are worth the uniform they're wearing in a fight. It's a lack of proper emphasis that has come from the top down like a disease. The best soldiers are constantly leaving and the Army is holding onto the mundane and poor performers. Give the soldier a weapon that is capable of precision and maybe he'll start to show you results.
We had more accurate weapons in WWI, WWII, and Korea. That doesn't make any sense for technology to take us backward instead of forward.
The piston guns were in SAR a couple months back. Is this IAR rifle a piston gun? it looks like that pot bellied RAS houses a piston operating system under the barrel.
Bullshit.
M1903s, M1s, and M14s are magnitudes more work to make them shoot at the level you desire.
NM parts, stock and barrel bedding, FF barrel, unitized parts are involved in making these guns shoot at this level.
The only entity screwing the army is the army if you want somebody to blame.
Stay on topic people.
Thats just not true, the 1903's for damn sure could shoot better than 3MOA. The M1 garands too. The M14 I didn't mention [that's Vietnam], and a totally screwed design with a very thin barrel. I had one that shot better than 1MOA with some parts in 2005 but it would only hold that for 3 rounds. Then the barrel would warm up and open to 2-3.
There was an aberdeen test quoted in Peter Seinichs book where a 1903 with two land rifling shot something like a 4" group at 600yards.
You pick up books and read about the kind of fighting we did in WWII and the casualties we produced back then were staggering. The guys could shoot and the rifles were accurate.
A lot of Chrome lined civi guns will do better than 1.25MOA. The more inaccuracy you tolerate, the shittier your results will be period.
And I didn't resort to personal attacks. I'm a graduate of US Army sniper school- not really clueless at all. When the rifle won't hold 1.5MOA win the hands of several snipers it's nothing more than an adequate personal defense weapon for support troops. A good replacement for an M1Carbine.
I've been reading a book about Chesty Puller and he's right, back when the volume fire concept began, he was an outspoken opponent. Only hits count was his point. He fought in four wars. I'm pretty sure he knew what got the job done. Today people do a lot of shooting and not a lot of casualty producing. It's all bark and not a lot of bite.
You sure about that?
http://www.defensereview.com/wp-cont...t_IAR_6940.jpg
I think the M4 shooting 4 MOA has more to do with the shooter than the rifle or it's design. I don't disagree that there are better choices out there, but unless the barrel has been completely shot to shit, I have yet to see a M4 that is only capable of shooting 4 MOA.
One more time people and then I'm getting pissed...
STAY ON TOPIC.
Apparently the source for this info is SMGlee
I know he posts here so maybe he will chime in
And even though it would be pointless in terms of original intent, it would neat if Colt made a civilian semi IAR
I thought the SCAR won the IAR contract?
Wow interesting it's supposed to be a supporting machine gun. The mexican sniper must not have been informed. It's strange they bought the "Infantry Automatic Rifle" and decided to do that with it.
The colt forend surrounds a giant heat sink mounted to the barrel. They went direct gas impingement. It's surprising KAC didn't enter the trials with Stoner they've done a lot of work with.
This is like the revival of the Colt LMG which was never accepted.
I guess it's a mordern day BAR concept. I'm surprised they don't just give everyone automatic fire control. It's cheap- it solves the 3 different trigger pullweights problem, and then anyone can provide that support when the situation dictates. The Saw de-emphasized is good though. They aren't very reliable as they shoot feed pawl springs pretty often unpredictably.
http://www.assaultweb.net/Forums/showthread.php?t=74149
This link seems to suggest there was an announcement of winners and that it was multiple contract award, but when you follow the web link it doesn't (for me anyway) go to anything on defense review.
The only links I could find in searches at DR were indications of a phase 3 with more competitors, and that was April 2008 so it's been over a year since.
I think that link has the correct information because that is the story here as well:
http://www.actionmilitary.com/articl..._Three_for_IAR
LWRC, POF-USA, Colt, H&K, FN and maybe some others I'm not tracking were all in the intial testing. After the intial testing, Colt, H&K and FN were down selcted to go to the next phase of testing. H&K and FN were awarded contracts for a set number, and Colt recieved two contracts totaling the same as the other two.
One Colt contract appaired to be for DI model and the other appaired to be for a piston model. I can't find them in FEDBIZOPS now, other then the FN award. Those contracts were awarded in the fall early winter of last year as I recall.
Sorry should have clicked on your link first:
Quote:
FN Herstal, S.A., Herstal, Belgium, is being awarded a five year indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contract with possible delivery orders up to $27,900,000 for the production, delivery, and associated support of the Marine Corps’ Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR). The IAR will be a light weight, magazine fed, 5.56 mm weapon which will enhance the automatic rifleman’s maneuverability and displacement speed while providing the ability to suppress or destroy not only area targets, but point targets as well. The IAR is planned to replace the M249 Squad Automatic Weapons (SAW) currently employed by automatic riflemen within Infantry and Light Armored Reconnaissance (LAR) Battalions. Although four contracts will be made initially, delivery orders will be awarded for samples. First Article, spare/repair parts, and various support services; and, eventually one of the four contractors may be awarded delivery orders for up to 6,500 IARs. FN Herstal’s production facility is in Herstal, Belgium. Delivery of contract line items will be as stated on applicable delivery orders. Contractfunds will be obligated in multiple delivery orders. This contract was competitively procured. The Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico, Va., is the contracting activity (M67854-09-D-1037).
Heckler and Koch Defense, Inc., Ashburn, Va., is being awarded a five year indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contract with possible delivery orders up to $23,600,000 for the production, delivery, and associated support of the Marine Corps’ Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR).The IAR will be a light weight, magazine fed, 5.56 mm weapon which will enhance the automatic rifleman’s maneuverability and displacement speed while providing the ability to suppress or destroy not only area targets, but point targets as well. The IAR is planned to replace the M249 Squad Automatic Weapons (SAW) currently employed by automatic riflemen within Infantry and Light Armored Reconnaissance (LAR) Battalions. Although four contracts will be made initially, delivery orders will be awarded for samples. First Article, spare/repair parts, and various support services; and, eventually one of the four contractors may be awarded delivery orders for up to 6,500 IARs. Work will be performed in Oberndorf, Germany. Delivery of contract line items will be as stated on applicable delivery orders. Contractfunds will be obligated in multiple delivery orders. This contract was competitively procured. The Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico, Va., is the contracting activity (M67854-09-D-1038).
Colt Defense, Inc., West Hartford, Conn., is being awarded a five year indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contract with possible delivery orders up to $14,000,000 for the production, delivery, and associated support of the Marine Corps’ Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR). The IAR will be a light weight, magazine fed, 5.56 mm weapon which will enhance the automatic rifleman’s maneuverability and displacement speed while providing the ability to suppress or destroy not only area targets, but point targets as well. The IAR is planned to replace the M249 Squad Automatic Weapons (SAW) currently employed by automatic riflemen within Infantry and Light Armored Reconnaissance (LAR) Battalions. Although four contracts will be made initially, delivery orders will be awarded for samples, First Article, spare/repair parts, and various support services; and, eventually one of the four contractors may be awarded delivery orders for up to 6,500 IARs. Colt’s production facility is in West Hartford, Conn. Work will be performed in West Hartford, Conn. Delivery of contract line items will be as stated on applicable delivery orders. Contractfunds will be obligated in multiple delivery orders. This contract was competitively procured. The Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico, Va., is the contracting activity (RFP M67854-08-R-1000, proposal 6940, contract number M67854-09-D-1035).
Colt Defense, Inc., West Hartford, Conn., is being awarded a five year indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contract with possible delivery orders up to $14,000,000 for the production, delivery, and associated support of the Marine Corps’ Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR). The IAR will be a light weight, magazine fed, 5.56 mm weapon which will enhance the automatic rifleman’s maneuverability and displacement speed while providing the ability to suppress or destroy not only area targets, but point targets as well. The IAR is planned to replace the M249 Squad Automatic Weapons (SAW) currently employed by automatic riflemen within Infantry and Light Armored Reconnaissance (LAR) Battalions. Although four contracts will be made initially, delivery orders will be awarded for samples, First Article, spare/repair parts, and various support services; and, eventually one of the four contractors may be awarded delivery orders for up to 6,500 IARs. Colt’s production facility is in West Hartford, Conn. Work will be performed in West Hartford, Conn. Delivery of contract line items will be as stated on applicable delivery orders. Contractfunds will be obligated in multiple delivery orders. This contract was competitively procured. The Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico, Va., is the contracting activity (RFP M67854-08-R-1000, proposal 6940H, and contract number M67854-09-D-1036).