Can any of you guys please give some recommendations for a good NFA Trust Attorney in North Carolina. I'm looking to go the trust route a NFA purchase and would like to contact a reputable attorney. Thanks in advance for any assistance provided.
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Can any of you guys please give some recommendations for a good NFA Trust Attorney in North Carolina. I'm looking to go the trust route a NFA purchase and would like to contact a reputable attorney. Thanks in advance for any assistance provided.
Please refer to NC Statute listed here...
http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf
Ownership of commonly labeled "NFA items" by private citizens of North Carolina is prohibited by state statute unless one of the qualifying requirements can be applied. Note pages 24, 25 and 26.
A trust is not a qualify document. Obtaining a FFL Type 1 or 7 with a SOT will satisfy the legal hurdle.
Eric Rogers, Esq is a very knowledgeable 2A attorney located in Charlotte.
http://www.slk-law.com/attorneys/default.aspx?id=1548
Munch,
Would a Type 3 C&R qualify? As exceptions listed are collectors.
CD
I am not an attorney and would not want to give you an opinion. Best to call Eric Rogers with legal questions.
Asst Attorney General John Aldridge is very aggressive enforcing NC firearms statutes with the assistance of NFA Branch. If you file a Form 1 or 4, Mr. Aldridge will be notified.
If your county Sheriff will sign off on the form, you may be OK. Absent a sign off, ownership under NC law becomes problematic. Another question for Mr. Rogers.
Get good legal advice and avoid a potential costly mistake.
A good write up here... Scroll down the page for info regarding Class III Ownership in NC.
http://www.pdhsc.com/class_iii.htm
I know of someone who obtained his tax stamp by going the living revocable trust route with no problem for his SBR. A NC resident. I don't remember there being any problems for him during the paperwork etc.
I don't know if it will help you, but there is some good information on this thread:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...North+Carolina
No one ever stated there would be a problem with NFA Branch issuing a tax stamp for a NC resident.
The issue is complying with NC statute not Federal law.
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding. Are you saying that, although federally the NC resident is in compliance, he/she may be unlawfully following a state statute? Simply stated... ok federally speaking, but can still "get in trouble" under a state law?
Follow the NC DOJ link to NC statute regarding NFA item ownership in NC.
Without CLEO sign off on the Form, avenues to ownership in NC are very limited. NC law does not allow for trust or LLC (without a FFL) ownership.
The key to trouble-free NC private citizen ownership is CLEO signoff. Regrettably, very few county sheriffs will sign a Form 1 or 4. The CLEO sign off must be by the sheriff in the county of your legal domicile.
Call Eric Rogers, Esq.. Legal advice from a very reputable NC 2A attorney is important to trouble free ownership in NC.
Asst Attorney General John Aldridge is very aggressive pursuing violations of NC firearm statutes.
Call Assistant Attorney General John Aldridge. He is very approachable and will answer all of your firearm questions in regards to NC law. He can be reached at.....
Mr. John J. Aldridge, III
Special Deputy Attorney General
N.C. Department of Justice
P.O. Box 629
Raleigh, NC 27602
919-716-6500
While NC is considered to a be fairly pro-firearm state, the state does have more restrictive statutes to NFA ownership than allowed under federal law.
Interestingly, the more restrictive state statutes could be ruled unconstitutional if the Supreme Court rules for McDonald in McDonald v. Chicago. Ironically, this case hinges on the 14th Amendment, not 2A. The question to be decided, is 2A "incorporated" into 14A and thereby applies to "states and localities".
Hopefully, SCOTUS will have a favorable decision for McDonald making this whole discussion mute.
Thank you. I just read the brief.
http://www.nraila.org/pdfs/NRA08-1521.pdf
Ok now you guys are worrying me, I was planning on getting an SBR now I'm a bit confused.
I know for a fact that SBR's can be obtained in NC by using the Trust method, but apparently, it appears to be against NC general statute. So even know the federal government will allow it, the state of NC will not. That is what it being fought in the supreme court right now, I believe.
Interesting thread, thanks for the info. I recently moved to Wake County in NC so I followed some of the advice here with regards NFA items.
One of the gentlemen I wrote to at PDHSC stated "The Wake County Sheriff is a good sheriff but he will not sign off on your Class III items."
Ah well.
Sheriff Donnie Harrison is a good guy. Very quick to issue CHPs and generally no issues if you have no issues in your background.
NC Sheriffs have been brow beaten by Asst AG John Aldridge. The AG's office makes life unpleasant for sheriffs who do sign forms for citizens. Politics at play here in NC.
Regardless of what you read here, I would seek legal advise before considering the trust or LLC route to ownership of NFA items in NC. NC laws are very specific to the means by which ownership of "weapons of mass destruction" (NC legal definition of SBRs, SBSs, suppressors, other NFA items). Trusts and LLCs WITHOUT an FFL are not considered legal means to ownership according to opinions filed in NC court by John Aldridge. This does not mean you can not do it...just means they are not legally recognized vehicles of ownership in NC.
I am not an attorney. I have talked to John Aldridge about this matter; there is no doubt to Mr. Aldridge's opinion on ownership and the NC law. It is questionable if Mr. Aldridge would prosecute a NC citizen with McDonald v. Chicago pending before SCOTUS. However, if SCOTUS rules for Chicago (lets hope not), NC citizens can expect Mr. Alridge to work through his stack of forms received from NFA Branch which do not conform to the provisions of ownership outlined in North Carolina General Statute § 14-288.8
Chris Tilley (owner of PDHSC) is the go-to guy in Wake County. Many connections and his advise is always spot on!
Doesn't PDHSC sell suppressors and the like? What's his advice to Wake County residents (or any NC resident) for lawful purchase of class III items? CLEO sign off...?
Nevermind... did a quick search and I took this from their website...
http://www.pdhsc.com/class_iii.htm (or see below)
"CLASS 3 OWNERSHIP IN NC
So, you want to own a suppressor (or any NFA item) in NC...What is the process and are there any pitfalls you ask? Well, here is an excerpt from the NC NFA Defense Association that may help explain things a little better:
It is not very easy to come by a signoff in NC in some cases, if you are located in Cumberland. Durham or Wake Counties it is a near impossibility. If you, in fact, actually reside elsewhere, you may have a better chance at a signature from the CLEO (which in NC, if you did not already know, is the Sheriff of the county in which you reside). There are several options for ownership, none of them are specifically illegal in NC, that being said, there are no provisions in NC firearms law that specifically state that they are a legal course of NFA ownership either. NC is very restrictive when it comes to NFA ownership in specific.
The following statement is from the President of the NC NFA Defense Association:
The desire to own NFA firearms is certainly understandable. They are the ultimate prize for firearms collectors and enthusiasts. However in our great state of North Carolina (NC) the items are becoming extremely difficult to obtain. One must remember that the more restrictive statute of law is the one by which we must abide, federal or state makes no difference.
Since the infamous AG opinion letter of 1999, the statutes under NC law have been pushed and evermore strictly enforced.. It has become very difficult to obtain a CLEO signature for the purpose of procuring a NFA weapon in most NC counties, and in several localities it is virtually impossible.
Unfortunately the rampant push for a "revocable trust" is no solution in this state either. NC law has no exception or allowance for a "Trust". We can find no legal way to use a Trust in NC strictly for the purpose of procuring NFA weapons. People often want to use a Corporation or LLC to obtain NFA devices.. this too is wrought with pitfalls, as the LLC or Corporation would have to be a Firearms business (FFL) or some form of Weapons Research firm in order to comply with NCGS 14-288.8.
DO NOT be foolhardy and "try" to read something into the NC Statutes that is not there, as the most negative interpretation possible will be taken by the prosecutor were you to become a test case. Before entertaining the idea of obtaining NFA weapons in NC, it is imperative that one fully read and understand NCGS 14-288.8 and 14-409. Then we strongly advise you to go sit down with your "CLEO" (chief law enforcement officer) and make your case with them. DO NOT make a public discuss or spread your intent around the CLEO's office, talk to him, and him alone if at all possible.
Make no mistake, your CLEO is under no legal obligation to sign anything, it is at his sole discretion. If your CLEO thinks you comply with NC law, and will sign your forms, then ownership is just a matter time and money. If however, the CLEO refuses to sign the forms for any reason, your options become EXTREMELY limited. The current political climate of NC precludes us from speculating as to whether your CLEO will or will not sign your forms. Also as a matter of professional courtesy we would not publicly divulge the identity of any CLEOs who have signed in the past, because we do not know their current requirements or policies.
If you need any further assistance, or explanation, please do not hesitate to contact us at ncnfada@yahoo.com . You may also check out our web site at http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/ncnfada for further info and links to NC firearms statutes."
So if I have NFA items in Florida would I not be able to transfer them to NC?
Or am I confused?
I have never done a change of address for item location.
If it requires the filing of a new Form 4, that could be problematic without CLEO (County Sheriff) sign off in NC and not done in compliance with NC statute.
Best to seek legal advise. Call Eric Rogers, at 704-375-0057. He is with the law firm Shumaker, Loop & Kendrick, LLP in Charlotte.
Sorry to resurrect a thread that's nearly a year old. But this was one of the most useful threads I turned up searching for info on an NFA Trust for NC. I too am a Wake Co. resident and understand our sheriff will still not sign-off on anything NFA. I'd really like to get an SBR lower registered and perhaps a can later on.
Has the seemingly positive 2A outcome of McDonald v. Chicago changed anything now regarding trusts in NC?
Are we still without a solid legal means of acquiring a SBR in NC without CLEO sign-off?
If you have questions or doubts, I suggest calling Gregory Herman-Giddens, JD, in Pittsboro. (919) 642-0115.
I've never heard of anyone who has had trouble with. Standard Revocable Living Trust.....whether it be by Attorney or Quicken. Has anyone heard or witnessed otherwise?
Ok let me first say that I do not have any NFA items so take this with a grain of salt. However, the issue isn't with your Sheriff or the ATF; the problem is with the state legislature. I just spoke with one of the respected Class III dealers in the area at a gun show this weekend and because of the gray area within the law he recommended against a trust in NC and said he always encouraged just getting an LEO sign-off.
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2010/0...garding-Recent
ATF Rumor regarding Revocable Gun Trusts- Don't be fooled by ATF Approval of Invalid Trusts
September 12, 2010
Posted In: ATF / BATFE , Criminal Penalties , FAQ's , How to Purchase a NFA Title II (Class 3) Firearm
By Jacksonville Foreclosure Lawyer, David M. Goldman on September 12, 2010 8:05 AM | Permalink
Recently we have begun hearing that the ATF is no longer requiring a Schedule A and/or an Assignment of Assets with a Trust. While we have not been able to verify this with ATF at this time, we would still suggest sending in these documents with your trust for approval. Remember that just because ATF approves your trust, they are not stating your trust is valid, only that it meets their limited review of criteria. We have seen many cases where the ATF approves trusts that are not valid and subject the individuals to potential criminal charges, confiscation, and fines of up to $250,000 per offense.
There are significant advantages of using an Assignment sheet over a schedule of assets or as some trusts refer to it "a Schedule A". While most believe that the registration of firearms has been shown to be one of the first steps in the confiscation of firearms by the government, there are many individuals who unknowingly and freely give the ATF a complete list of their firearms by using a Schedule A. An assignment sheet can still transfer assets into a trust, but not create a full list of the assets and become part of the trust document. This additional privacy is an important advantage to using a NFA Gun Trust like we have created. To find out more about Gun Trusts or have your trust reviewed for problems with the NFA contact a Gun Trust Lawyer by email or call us.
Categories:
ATF / BATFE,
Criminal Penalties,
FAQ's,
How to Purchase a NFA Title II (Class 3) Firearm
This is why I would use a lawyer well read in NFA law........YMMV.....
Ok I realize this is and big time necro bump but came across this thread again and a couple of links in my reading lately and it seemed like the most applicable place for it.
It looks like the whole "is a trust valid for NFA items in NC" confusion has been resolved. Or at least appears to be as of HB650 becoming effective on Dec 1, 2011. It seems that if your forms get approved with a trust and you're in adherence with federal law then your good to go on the state level as well.
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2011/0...usts-mach.html
http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/ncnfada/ (the second one is hard to read because of the crazy background they picked but is doable if you highlight the text)
Yes. As of 12/1/11, if you have ATF approval (for all NFA except machine guns), then you are GTG. Machine guns still require CLEO approval by state law regardless of whether you are a corporation, trust, individual, or space alien.
NC made some significant 2A advances last year, but restaurant carry was stalled yet again this year by the Republicans in charge of the Senate, no less.
Hi im curious I have 2 form 1 sbr lowers in North Dakota, but i was just stationed in NC. Now my question, has anyone transfered their items into NC. And if so was it difficult. If so would i get in trouble for bringing my lowers even if I put on a 16 inch upper. Thanks for the help.
No issues with transfers. Just submit the 5320 form and get approved it's very easy. I faxed mine and it was faxed back the same day. They than mailed me a hard copy to my new address.
To your other question, as long as you are in possession of the short uppers, here or back home, you still have title 2 guns which require a approved 5320 in order to remove them from your home state.
If you have sold the short uppers and installed 16" or longer uppers you should be GTG. Its been awhile since I read the laws on the ATF website but you can find the correct answer there.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the fast response that helps a lot.