I was just about to purchase a Norgon ambi mag release and noticed that it might interfere with the BAD lever. is anyone running these two parts together?
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I was just about to purchase a Norgon ambi mag release and noticed that it might interfere with the BAD lever. is anyone running these two parts together?
Just going by the photos on their website and the position of the BAD levers on my rifles I would hazard a guess that at the very least the lever would not allow easy access to the ambi-release button and may actual create a mechanical interference. Just a guess though...
I don't have any pictures, but I have this set up on one of my rifles. The two end up very close together, similar to what Marty916 surmised. They don't actually interfere with each other mechanically, but the BAD lever does come close enough that you have to be careful when using the Norgon to avoid hitting it. If I tried using the Norgon quickly, or tried to get to it with my trigger finger shooting lefty, the BAD would interfere.
I am in the process of trying to decide which is more useful to me in normal operations, and then removing the other. I shoot right handed, so so far the BAD is edging out the Norgon. Since they don't interfere mechanically, I'm in no real rush though.
Hope this helps.
I had this on one of my set ups. FOR ME it was just to close together. I have fairly small/short fingers. So I removed the bad lever.
I am going to get the new Troy ambi mag release, I think for me this might work with the bad lever.
Stick with the BAD, it is far more useful in the bigger picture for RT handed shooters. I had a Norgon before the BAD. It was a no brainer on what I would use more.
First, the BAD WILL interfere with the Norgon, so you have to choose.
Which to choose?
The Norgon is a far more useful piece of kit with the possible (and I do mean possible) exception of a gamer gun.
Right handers will eventually have to shoot off-hand.
I'm of the very strong/educated opinion that the BAD is contraindicated for shooting lefty/offhand, it gets in the way, the bolt often drops prematurely during reloads necessitating cycling the bolt and is otherwise a no-go on a fighting gun. I know all this from experience.
The Norgon adds far more functionality for both righties and lefties. The BAD is only useful for righties...assuming they NEVER shoot offhand.
This is why I love M4C, differing opinions. I think you would agree though John that shooters have been shooting off hand or lefties have been using right handed guns with no problems for years w/o an ambi mag release.
As a lefty who had to make do, yes I could use an AR. However that argument cuts both ways, people have been using right handed guns w/ no problems for years w/o a BAD.
That said, all my guns now have Norgons and every lefty I know who uses one is glad they got it.
In contrast I know a lot of righties who HATE the BAD and won't contaminate their carbine with one for the reasons I specified. That said I tried to like the BAD, I gave it a shot but the short-comings were so glaring that I couldn't recommend it. I think there are better options that accomplish roughly the same thing. The proclivity (or ability) to drop the bolt by placing your finger where it would normally rest outside the trigger guard is a flaw IMO.
What works for one, doesn't for another and vice versa. Just call me toxic for I contaminated a few of mine.
Hey man it's your carbine, you're allowed to do whatever you'd like.
If you're happy with it then my opinion is just about worthless.
John, I value your opinion on many things, this I just disagree to a point that is all. I tried the Norgon, just couldn't get my brain to function properly to use it and engage it when need be. The BAD to me is pretty much natural in regards to the operation of an AR.
Again appreciate your comments and glad you posted as you deservingly should.
I don't know what the etiquitte is, but Stickman has a pic of a Norgon and a Bad. The link is at:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...1t:429,r:3,s:0
or I just used Google picture search for "norgon ambi-catch bad lever".
I have two rifles set up this way. I had the Norgon's on first, and the BADs came next. I would take the BAD over an ambi mag release any day of the week. I can still hit the Norgon, but people are right, it isn't easy.
It is a personal preference, but the BADs ability to drop the bolt after a reload, lock back the bolt for malfs and just general gun handling is way more useful than an ambi mag release. I have an LMT MWS now and I find it a major PITA to go back to the standard method. I could see if you were left handed how the Norgon would be more advantageous.
Hope I'm not too late to the party, but here's a video that might help:
Magpul B.A.D. on a left handed AR15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyrC5mdY8og
The user has a BAD lever on an ambi AR, complete with Norgon, which he talks about in relation to the BAD a bit at about 2:10. :)
I don't have any pics, but I run a BAD with a Troy ambi release with zero issues. I'll see if I can take some and throw them up tomorrow.
http://store.troyind.com/Ambidextrou...mb-00bt-00.htm
Hows that Troy ambi mag release?
Only had it on for a month or so. Taken it through a 2 day class and a 4 hour training day (all within dept) so far, on top of range time and dry fire manipulations on my own. So far, I'd say it's a 10, like you would expect from pretty much any Troy product. It's functioned 100% (as a left-handed shooter, which means I actually use it). To my surprise, this whole left-handed rifle shooter thing wasn't nearly as difficult to get the hang of as I thought it would (I'm a very right-handed person).
Since I have to bust out all my gear and guns and clean the hell out of them tomorrow (today's training involved lots of lying in mud puddles), I'll snap some pics of it with the BAD lever and post them.
Here's a pic of the Troy ambi release with BAD lever. As you can see, the Troy leaves plenty of clearance.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/ksmaliz/m4.jpg
Thanks for the picture KSM. I've been using the Norgon with a BAD for some time now and don't have any problems, but after seeing yours I think I'll try the Troy on my next build.
I'm a lefty, I need 4 of them:D
That's what I bought and sold my Norgons. For a left handed shooter the Troy is the first ambi mag release that works well and is easy to use. It's placement is very close to my KAC SR-15. I'd previously tried the Knights and Power Custom as well. With the Troys available now I've decided not to buy a Knights lower. It is the answer for now.
I have a Knights ambi mag somewhere, but that absolutely doesn't work with the BAD. The Norgon works, but frankly I haven't used it in left hand mode very much, especially in higher stress situations. That Troy seems to be the real solution. Lots more clearance.
Now will any of them work with that new Magazine/bolt manipulator that someone posted recently?
Thanks for the pic KSM....but it raises the same issues.
If you're shooting left handed.
To reach the Norgon/Troy you have to reach around the BAD lever and carefully activate it without putting pressure on the BAD which would result in dropping the bolt prematurely and thereby adding yet a whole other step to the reload.
Of course this presumes you're keeping the gun in the vertical plane and not rolling it inboard as many people do which would cause the weight of the gun to fall on the extended finger resulting in a premature bolt release.
On a square range in normal conditions this is feasible. In the heat of the moment and under stress this becomes a lot more problematic.
Like I said, it trades ambidextrous viability in favor of better speed/functionality for the right hand only. For the lefty, the BAD is a no-go, for the right-handed shooter you need to spend a lot of time practicing/training in order to overcome some inherent limitations.
I'm sitting here with a BAD and Norgon and what you wrote below doesn't seem to jive with the actual set-up.
I don't think so. If the bolt is locked back, the BAD is pressed up against the receiver. Any miss-pressure around the Norgon will only depress it more and will not drop the bolt. If you do reach up and hit the top of the BAD, it will drop the bolt, but that would happen with a standard bolt catch too.
May I suggest finger push-ups? ;) I'm not sure what you mean here, unless you are backwards on the BAD operation as above.
I have only tried the BAD on the square range, and it works exquisitely. I have gotten so used to it, it almost makes me want to sell my LMT MWS due to the old hand jive needed to lock back teh bolt or work malfs.
You are left-handed, but I do have a left hand and I'm just not seeing the issues that you are stating- and it seems that you have it backwards as to which way the BAD moves to do what. I realize that the bad is not much of an advantage for Lefties, and I agree that you sinister folks would be far better off with a ambi-mag than a BAD- but to say that the BAD requires a lot of re-training I think is incorrect. I know that there is a lot of personal preference in how people run their guns, but I would hate for someone to read this thread and forgo a BAD. Looking forward to your response so we can clear this up.
I ran a BAD hard in a DMR class when my FAL went down with ammo issues. Everything I described was accurate and happened to me during normal function of the gun. As I've said before I tried to like the BAD, it's just not conducive to left-handed operation based on first-hand experience.
YMMV but other lefties I know have experienced the same.
I'll admit I'm confused about what you're saying, and I'm a left handed rifle shooter.
With the bolt locked to the rear, pressing on the arm of the BAD lever doesn't release the bolt, pulling it out would. I can mash on it all I want, it isn't going to release anything unless you either get your finger underneath and lift it outward, or press the top of it. Pressing the arm of the BAD into the receiver is the motion that locks the bolt to the rear, not release it.
I suppose it could be because I keep my finger angled as far away from the trigger guard as possible when not shooting to prevent it from slipping inside, this would put your finger directly on the button or provide enough contact to drop the bolt.
The bottom line was that in manipulating the gun during shooting/moving/reloads there is enough jostling that it dropped the bolt repeatedly. I've heard the same complaint from numerous other lefties. If the assertion is that it's impossible to do what I suggest I promise you it's not.
As I said before, if you like the BAD, my opinion is only my own. People however should be given a chance to make an informed decision and understand that there are potential drawbacks.
Thanks, here is another image that shows it without the angle.
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/gall...1024-Stick.jpg
Thanks John for the input. I wonder if tighter or looser bolt catches themselves, or maybe recoil spring resistance, might play into how sensative the BAD makes the system. I know I have to really mash the top of the BAD/bolt-catch when working it left handed to get it to drop the bolt.
How does all this junk function with KNS pins? :sarcastic:
The BAD & Norgon combination work well for me . Finger length seems to make a difference. The BAD got in my wife's way , she hated the thing.
I cut the arm short between the M and the A in Magpul. Now she's happy.
The remnants of the BAD are a big help to her. Easier to reach .
YMMV
I know this is an older thread but I just thought I'd lend my .02 as a lefty and someone who ran two different carbines with BAD levers for a Magpul class this summer.
Malfunction clearance drills with a BAD makes my life MUCH easier...
...unfortunately I was plagued constantly with the premature bolt drop mentioned by John. It was so bad that I switched from my primary to my backup carbine thinking it was a problem with the primary. The same problem immediately reared its ugly head with my backup carbine.
So, much as I love the BAD, I've had to dump them. Without them both carbines function perfectly again with several hard-use sessions to evaluate them in conditions much like those in the class (high, fast round counts, dust, multiple positions, malf. clearance drills, etc...)
Again, this is one man's experience but it does match what many other lefties have said when using the BAD in stressful situations. It had formerly functioned well on typical low-stress range days.
Poor Man's Review.
I figured I would jump in here instead of start another thread. I mounted my Magpul BAD Lever and took a few photos. Granted I was being hasty and they are no where near what Stickman produces, but they might help some of you who are on the fence about buying one of these. I will be purchasing a Troy Ambi-Mag Release some time over the next month, so I will update when that happens to show folks how they work together.
The host M4-gery is a home-built AR15 with carbine length gas system and a 16 inch 1:9 Chrome lined SOCOM profile barrel. There are plans to replace this barrel with a 16 inch Mid-length gas system 1:7 Chrome lined SOCOM profile barrel soon. The lower is a Stag Arms with an Ergo Sure Grip. The M4-gery has a 7 inch Troy MRF FF rail, (which will be replaced with a 13.8 inch Troy MRF-RX FF rail soon) a Troy MCG VG, and a Surefire M951-X07 weapon light with a P60L LED lamp installed. Over the last 3 years or so I have put about 7K rounds through it, without a single malfunction as of yet. Personally I blame the Pmags.
The standard straight on shot
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...BAD01Lever.jpg
Like a moron I used "German Specs" to tighten the screw... "Goo-den-tight". As a result I boogered up the Torx teeth in the screw head. This in no way should reflect badly on Magpul. I was the dummy who over tightened the screw. So be warned when you install your BAD Lever to turn your brain on. I did notice Magpul placed a dab of thread locker on the screw threads to prevent them from backing out once they had been tightened and left to set. A very nice touch.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ewCloseUp2.jpg
These shots show the BAD Lever in the normal position, resting up against the upper receiver.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...sttheUpper.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...sttheUpper.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ttheUpper2.jpg
These photos show the BAD Lever in the Bolt hold open position.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...enPosition.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...nPosition2.jpg
Here is a good view of the BAD Lever from one position to the other.
Bolt closed in the normal position.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ltPosition.jpg
Bolt open.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...enPosition.jpg
And a close up looking from the muzzle of the firearm down the side to the butt stock.
Bolt closed in the normal position.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...tPosition2.jpg
Bolt open.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...nPosition2.jpg
Booger Hook off the trigger...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...theTrigger.jpg
Booger Hook on the trigger...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...theTrigger.jpg
Booger Hook in the activation position...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...Activation.jpg
The typical closing shot. Of course now, I'll have to touch up the paint on my rifle...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...inFullView.jpg
The Magpul BAD Lever is secure, the only movement was the movement of the bolt release itself. I love this thing. Drills can be done with the shooting hand on the grip in a firing position. No more monkeying around changing hands to grip the mag well with my left hand while grabbing the charging handle with my right hand. It is much faster. It is my opinion that everyone should use these.
All images shot with my Canon 1D Mk II.
I wanted to try the bad lever and the kac ambi mag release but neither fit on my mgi modular lower. Does anyone know if the norgon ambi catch or the troy ambi release work with an mgi lower?
I am well aware of what I purchased when I bought my mgi lower. I was also aware of the possibility that it would not fit on my lower but I have other lowers so it is no real loss to me.