Grant had Bravo Company SBR lowers.
I missed out... :(
And it turns out that the Daniel Defense SBR lowers were vaporware.
Do any other manufacturers register there lowers?
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Grant had Bravo Company SBR lowers.
I missed out... :(
And it turns out that the Daniel Defense SBR lowers were vaporware.
Do any other manufacturers register there lowers?
Why not buy a lower and Form 1 it?
I could. And I may have to.
Bravo still has blem lowers for $250 minus the stock.
But I really don't want to engrave it.
check w/Noveske.
http://www.c3defenseinc.com/kiss/car...productid=2531
You can SBR the receiver on the drop down menu to the right for a simple $10 more.
I really like the option for ten bucks to buy the G2 lower SBR'd! Not sure abkut the billet lower. You could also just buy a complete factory SBR. Does G&R still have LMT SBR's that is where I bought mine. My second was the BCM SBR lower. DD will also sell you a comets SBR and I think Noveske will too.
I didn't see any SBR lowers on Grants site.
I can only afford to do the lower now and I was going to buy the upper at tax time.
My FFL/SOT is letting his license expire in February. Which is why I'm not just scrimping to buy a whole rifle.
I'm not sure what a comet SBR is.
Tell me more?
Sorry man I call that Droid thumb! I meant complete.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...ion&key=SBR-10
Here is a link to the LMT 10.5"
just a note from the c3 defense site....."SPECIAL NOTICE REGARDING NFA WEAPONS! All SBR (short barrel rifle) pre-registered receivers require additional time to process and deliver. All NFA rules apply and that the 200.00 transfer tax is not included in the purchase price."
Some guy on TOS is swearing up and down that a registered SBR lower is illegal to transfer without an upper.
I'm pretty sure the lower has to "manufactured" with an upper and register with that upper's barrel length.
Poly
Im not sure I have not seen the ruling. I belive the answer is the lower needs to have an overall and bbl length listed when it is registered. Just like some one who buys a stripped lower to use as a SBR they fill out the form 1 and list the lengths there.
Not sure what to say but it appears BCM is not the only company doing it. Is it C3 mentioned in this thread offering the service too? It is like Bushmaster saying in their web site they will not sell a Full Auto BCG to anyone with out proof they legally own a machine gun.
To be blunt it is BS and just not true. I suspect this is another form of that argument. It is not just BM that thinks that way.
It is obviously not a problem for Colt and a few other companies. They ship their Carbines that way. It is frusterating and like arguing with a drunk, you know you're right but is still a complete waste of your time.
Poly
I sent you a PM on another option on where to buy a BCM lower.
The way I understand is this. If a manufacturer builds a lower and they register it as an SBR lower then it must be transferred as an NFA item.
AFAIK it does not have to be a complete weapon. Also on a similar note we have discussed SBR lowers that were built on a Form 1 by an individual. As I understand the ATF ruling if you take a lower and remove the short upper and put a 16" upper you could then take the weapon into another non-NFA state.
So I guess I am missing the point of the ARFcom nerd.
Sorry but they do not exist in the NFA. A short barreled rifle has a barrel less than 16" and a stock.
Machine gun receivers are subject to the NFA for transfer, this is probably the reason for the confusion.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nati...-shotguns.html
Q: What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?
A: While a receiver alone may be classified as a “firearm” under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).
Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
A: A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA “firearm” pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.
My complete SBR lower was at my local Class III dealer during an routine ATF audit. I know they looked at it because the auditor asked what was taking so long for the transfer. They had the owner call the NFA branch and check on the status.
What violation would we have here? I hope none. It was registered as a SBR by the manufacturer, transferred to a dealer, purchased by me, then transferred to another dealer and finally transferred to me after my form 4 was approved.
The intent here is to have a properly registered SBR. The fact that it comes to me with out an upper should not matter it is not a permanent alteration. ATF allows us to put a 16" upper 18" bbl on a SBS or SBR to change the guns SBS/SBR status temporarily. The ATF tells us we can then put the SBR upper back on and make it an SBR again.
I don't see how it is different than me taking a stripped or complete lower filling out a form one and applying for the tax stamp. I would have already engraved the lower with the name of my trust. While I was waiting I could continue using the gun with a 16" upper until or even beyond the time I have the tax stamp in hand. I could also leave the stripped lower stripped and wait. I might not have the money for a new upper and leave the lower in my safe. I took the proper steps and have the proper paperwork.
I should have been more clear on what I meant by a lower.
I'm talking a complete lower receiver group, not a stripped lower.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...ey=LWR-BCM-NFA
BTW Todd, I'm looking at putting a Noveske N4 Basic 10.5" on it around tax time.
My next stamp after that will be a suppressor.
Any reliability issues running a suppressor on these uppers?
Any specifics on gas port diameter?
I just checked my tax stamp that I finally received earlier in the week for a complete BCM factory registered SBR lower. The length of barrel is listed as 8 inches. I suppose now I should send a letter to the ATF and tell them the actual barrel length. I don't know which ruling you guys are talking about, just relaying what I bought and what it is registered as. By the way, this factory SBR lower was a good buy, so I hope you are able to find one.
Interesting. Mine came as a 10.5" which is as short as I would go with DI but I have a 11.5" BCM upper on it. I have a 10.5" gun too so I am going to leave the bbl length alone.
I asked the gentleman that owns Tactical Innovations about this. He told me he was told by ATF that incomplete rifles could not be transferred as SBR's and he had a stack of lowers with complete paperwork that could now not be sold.
Chris
This is getting interesting. Hopefully he could just build them up.
No, he has a stack of regular lowers that can be sold as such. He should but does not have to notify the ATF and have them taken off the registry.
SBR lowers was a pretty common practice but if you read the NFA an SBR does not exist unless it's a rifle (stock) and has a barrel less than 16" attached. If you maintain possession of the short upper you can swap to a 16" and back but that obviously doesn't happen if it's a lower being transferred.
I can also take my SBR, replace the 10.5" upper with a 16" upper and sell it to my neighbor. Because it's not an SBR unless it has a barrel less than 16" on it.
You can run a suppressor on our 10.5", the port is big enough but isn't overly large. No problems with .223 pressure ammo and it uses the better H2 buffer.
If you will be getting a Noveske upper just get one of our lowers and skip the class 3 dealer. You can send in a Noveske lower to be factory registered when you buy a short upper and the SBR transfers back to you on a F4.
If I'm reading this correctly I could send my Noveske lower to you then have it transfered back on a form 4? (complete with upper)
Since were on the subject my current noveske has a pinned vortex, could you unpin it? or would I have to replace the barrel? (possibly the upper, otherwise might be a good excuse to by a new upper)
If you buy an upper with short barrel you will be able to send in a Noveske lower. It needs to be complete as we will put the upper on and register it. We send you the forms, fingerprint cards, etc. and when the F4 is approved it is returned as a complete factory registered SBR.
There is no reason the lowers can't be built and sold as SBR's, but manufacturers are supposed to make the NFA weapon and then register/inform the ATF of them being built. Individuals must wait for the approved F1, then make the NFA weapon.
Todd, does a manufacturer put any more markings on a rifle that they are registering as an SBR or does the existing make, model, caliber, etc suffice?
I'm really trying to dial in the requirements regarding engraving my rifle when I register it as an SBR.
Thanks,
Vinson
Poly
With a form 1 you become the maker of the SBR so you engrave your name/trust name and city and state on the gun. With a form 4 the gun has typically been SBR'd by say a traditional manufacturer LMT, BCM, DD, Colt or Noveske.
Although you did not make the gun you made it into a SBR. So you become the maker.