Here are a few pics of my SR-556 after a few thousand rounds over the last eight months. It have sent it back to Ruger for inspection and repair but I have doubts that if this is happening in 556, how is the 6.8 SPC going to do???
Printable View
Here are a few pics of my SR-556 after a few thousand rounds over the last eight months. It have sent it back to Ruger for inspection and repair but I have doubts that if this is happening in 556, how is the 6.8 SPC going to do???
I've seen tilt get so bad that it'll have intermittent problems. Sometimes you'll get through a whole mag without stoppages but sometimes you can't get past a couple of rounds. The carrier wasn't designed by Eugene Stoner to move in the fashion that it does in a piston gun. When you get your carrier back I'd suggest replacing the receiver extension with a new one (if Ruger doesn't) and getting an anti-tilt buffer from FRS, get the H2 weight.
I've seen a few HK upper receivers that were shot hard and suppressed which cracked the upper receivers.
That's so strange that the Ruger SR-556 does this. I have ARs from Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, Colt, LMT and even Bushmaster and I have never seen this problem.
Cameron
DI guns don't have this issue... it's strictly piston driven system that produce the problem. It's the way the impulse hits the BCG that cause the issue... a DI system doesn't exhabit it. The anti-tilt is probably the best way to resolve the issue.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...0/DSCN1846.jpg
As far as I understand it... it's different for every gun. Some has a lot and some has very little. Some will wear a lot at the beginning then stop and functions just fine. Me, I'll stick to the DI gun since that's what the system was designed for in the first place.
~dpc
Yup this was quite the bummer for me. I'll wait to see what Ruger does. But like I said, if it is happening in 556, what is the 6.8 going to do? I do have plans to add a different buffer after I get it back and see if that helps. I would think that Ruger has tried this already though so I'm not expecting it to help much. I'm also curious to see if anyone else has had this happen. Not that much info out there about rates of this happening. No recall's that I have heard of but that doesn't mean it's not going to happen.
What is FRS Robb??
Seth Harness' business is FRS, he makes the anti tilt buffer, Ruger refunded my money.
Here is who youre looking for https://www.m4carbine.net/member.php?u=2419
Bolt carrier tilt is what happens when you use a desgin not made for that operating system.
It's all about the axis of force from the piston. Take a look at every piston design that was designed from scratch as a piston gun. The return spring and pistion are inline, i.e. the same axis, not parallel, but the exact same axis. The FAL has the return spring attatched to the rear point of the bolt carrier opposite of where the piston strikes it. The M1's spring actually goes in the oprod opposite of the piston. The AK's spring is housed in the bolt carrier opposite of the piston. Even a DI gun techincally has a piston. The bolt carrier acts as a stationary piston, and the bolt carrier around it acts as a gas cylinder. Where's the spring on the AR-15? It's directly behind the "piston" on the opposite end of the bolt carrier. On the Daewoo K1A1 (the only other DI gun I have expereince with), they used two springs ala M3 Grease gun, but still they are in line with the "Piston" or bolt. AR-180 used twin springs again inline with the gas psiton.
Any design that uses a spring in a postion that it will not be directly acting on the force opening the bolt, is simply bad engineering. No one in their right mind would design a piston gun from scratch to have a spring acting on the bolt carrier in a different axis than the force of the piston. Yet somehow these designs are considered "improvements".
Ten four on what Rob says it seems every rifle will wear different.You cant go wrong with getting a buffer from fire arm ready solutions, Seth is a great guy to talk to,get one for the 5.56 and one for the 6.8 if you have two rifles, and dont look back.
Jason
How long will it take the world to figure out that a piston AR is a ****ing retarded idea? :confused:
As are 90% of the guns designed by Ruger...
the world may never know.
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/image...mr-owl-425.jpg
That's because it has a long stroke piston which rides in a gas tube to keep the carrier traveling straight. So does the XCR.Quote:
However, the Daewoo K2 is a pretty good design, IMO.
All three rifles, the ar15, daewoo k2, and xcr have a bolt carrier that has four contact points the carrier travels on. There are no rails. As such, if a piston is to be used, like on the xcr and daewoo k2, it must be connected directly to the carrier, with the op rod guided by a gas tube, in order to prevent carrier tilt.
short stroke designs are a no-go unless the carrier rides on a pair of rails.
In my understanding... that's why PWS went with a long-stroke system (ie AK-piston) in their revamp design.
One thing to keep in mind, reading on blogs of people that's actually keeping track of their wear on piston uppers... most rubbing stops after a set amount. While the set amount varies, I have yet to read of any rubbing past the tube and into the lower receiver's tube threads. So at worst, you're looking at a buffer tube with some wear marks on it and not causing function issues. It may look ugly, but that's about it.
That being say... it's not something that one should expect on a $1200 rifle. I'm sure Ruger knew about the issue... it probably comes down to a numbers game, would it cost more to add the anti-tile buffer for every rifle they sell or just replace the tube for people that return it for repairs? My guess is, not everyone shoots their rifle enough to cause the wear... thus it's cheaper to deal with the repairs.
Side note: Not every Ruger design is junk, I have a Security-6 that my daddy gave me... after 20 years, it's still a rock solid 6 shooter ;)
Cant we all just get along.
It seems every time a new person comes along and wants to ask questions and become part of the family, it turns into a mine is better than yours and that rifle is crap and yada,yada,yada.We are all part of a group who want to use the Ar platform,it takes a real man behind a computer to talk trash about other peoples property!!:mad:
Jason
We're not trying to trash on paul24. It's in our best interest, collectively, to prevent another mistake from happening to all forum members. That is, to prevent members from spending money on something not worth while.Quote:
Cant we all just get along.
It seems every time a new person comes along and wants to ask questions and become part of the family, it turns into a mine is better than yours and that rifle is crap and yada,yada,yada.We are all part of a group who want to use the Ar platform,it takes a real man behind a computer to talk trash about other peoples property!!
Granted, my first post in this thread didn't contribute shit. :D
======================================
That's funny. My UPS driver at work is ate up with DPMS. He told me he has a DPMS .223 and he's never had a problem. A year ago he told me he wanted a DPMS .308.
Nice and polite as I could be, I told him DPMS "wasn't very well thought of", sent him threads, etc. About 6-months ago, he bought one anyway but I'm starting to see why he is OK with DPMS. He has only shot his .308 one time for 30-rounds and he has not shot his .223 a single time in a year.
At that rate, his .308 should give him years and years of trouble-free service. And silly me, buying those top-tier guns...Oh well...
Guess UPS drivers see more DPMS's and Ruger's delivered, so they figure they must be better.
.
Funny I have a DPMS AP4 Carbine that has over 3000 rounds through it and no problems I must have the only one that made it to that round count.:sarcastic:
Jason
That's because most people shop on price alone and as mentioned above, never shoot the guns enough to have issues.
My wife's father, brother and brother-in-law, think Ruger hung the moon. When I suggested a Glock instead of a Ruger pistol, my brother-in-law said "That's WAY more than I want to spend." That is the mindset of the average Ruger owner. And there are WAY more of them than there are of us.
My father-in-law actually bragged to me that his PRIMARY personal protection gun (a S&W Model Chief's Special, bought in 1950-something) had only had 4 rounds fired through it SINCE HE BOUGHT IT OVER 50 YEARS AGO. I told him he wasn't getting his money's worth out of it that way. Not to mention the fact that he only carries 4 rounds in it, so the chamber under the hammer is empty. :rolleyes:
Nope, not a bit.
Clint, I find it hard to believe this is an isolated incident. My thought also was that with high recoil and this may excellerate the problem of Carrier tilt.
Personally I love the Ruger piston system. I have been firing AR's since I went into the Army in 1985. I'm still in and I firmly believe if the piston system can be worked out it will eventually take over the DI weapons in the services. Remember people that this system has been around since the 1960's. It has had plenty of time to "figure out the problems." For years the AR platform was condemmed as "crap" by almost everyone. It was still being called crap in the 80's when the M16A2 came out. It will get worked out.
As to Ruger getting bashed I'm surprised by the venom on this site. They have been around forever and I'll stick by them.
I will get a Buffer from FRS and "drive on" with my SR-556. It's a good platform and very accurate.
They've made millions of well designed and reliable firearms, that were priced fairly, and met the needs of those who bought them.
Have they catered to the 2% of gun experts? No. Have they made some clunkers? Sure. Which major hasn't? Maybe they've even made more than their fair share. But saying that "90% of their designs are retarded" is a bit of a stretch.
Quote:
I think I see what Rob_S means when he says some people ask questions but when the answers start coming in, they put their fingers in their ears and start chanting, "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA...".
For some people, selling a firearm, especially at a loss, is a hard thing to do.
So you just deal with it or assign it for a different duty, whatever it may be, and make a better purchasing decision next time.
LMAO! If I listened to everyone that posts I would have a stick and throw all my weapons away. Everyone has their preferences. I didn't come here for answers. I simply posted a couple pics of carrier tilt. I liked the idea of the new buffer tube and will incorporate it into my AR. I'm thinking you feel you have the perfect "system" and everyone else's is crap.
I don't get caught up in "this vs that".
To the OP...
As I started in my post, I probably won't worry about it too much. Keep tracking your round count and keep tabs on the wear pattern. Most of the people that have blogged about this and kept track of it has stated that the wear stops... none have reported as far as I know that it would keep going down to the threads of the lowers, which would be more of an issue.
If in the long run, you think it may be an issue... you can get both the anti-tilt from FRS and the PWS Enhanced Buffer Tube (EBT). It's my understand that the EBT was designed to allow for the carrier to be fully supported so that it doesn't have to 'jump' into the buffer tube. Looks promising for piston system... time will tell if it works out.
Also check out this thread, just found it. He moded his standard tube and carrier to address tilting. Seem like a good home-smithing job that seem to address the the tilt issue.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment...6&d=1264288549
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=39687
Just my 2 cent.
~dpc
To the OP:
don't accept anything less than to be 100% satisfied from Ruger. That is unacceptable. My 10.5" LWRC upper has NO signs of carrier tilt at ~1000 rounds. And pay no mind to d-bags like the 'MarkM' guy that craps on any thread piston related. Enjoy your gun when the get it right (Or, sell it when they send it back & move on).
The pic you posted won't work very well. Reducing the length of the RET by shortening it and then screwing it further into the lower will reduce the overall rearward stroke of the BCG and buffer assembly. This could detrimentally affect the bolt locking open on empty, and other aspects of the rifle's function. Who knows.
OP, Any modification that substantially increases wear as compared with the original design better have a damn good reason for doing so. The main articulated reason for developing these piston systems is to increase reliability in the AR15 platform. After reading articles like Pat Roger's Filthy 14, and hearing from many hundreds of forum members here, reliability of the DI AR15 platform, when properly manufactured, is simply not a problem. I paid less for my Spike's lower and BCM upper than I would have for a complete DPMS or Bushmaster at the last gun show. As I've stated before, if DPMS/Bushmaster/Olympic Arms/Model 1 Sales/Stag AR's ran like LMT/BCM/KAC/Noveske/Larue/Spike's Tactical/Daniel Defense.......this entire forum would not exist.
Are there people who shoot relatively high round counts with the above listed brands and have few issues....yes. But they are clearly the exception to the rule. Piston AR15's deviate from the basic design principles of the Direct Impingement AR15 in such a fashion as to have a myriad of unintended, detrimental consequences. Increased heat at the gas block and carrier tilt being two of the main issues.
The fact remains that Ruger has created a gun that has increased wear in a previously non-bearing-surface area. I still have not heard one good excuse for doing so.
The properly made DI AR is not broken. If some are blinded by their own financial investment into piston AR's so be it. :rolleyes:
awww that's ****ing nice. Let's buy a piston AR, **** up the buffer tube because of a side effect, mess up the BCG stroke length and now we got more problems.:sarcastic:Quote:
This could detrimentally affect the bolt locking open on empty, and other aspects of the rifle's function. Who knows.
Maybe the dude should cut 1/8 inch off the the rear of the carrier!
Oh shit then the gas key might strike the buffer tube, now we gotta cut up the gas key!:sarcastic:
this is ridiculous.
I still have a p89 my grandfather bought when it first came out.......he gave it to me before he died. He never shot it much but I can't even guess how many thousands of rounds I have put through it the past 15 years. The only thing ever replaced have been the mag springs and followers for the original mags. it would make a horrible cc gun but it has been rock solid through the years. The only other ruger I have now is a redhawk. I wanted a 45 colt that would stand up to stout loads.
Dude, you have that much wear after 8 MONTHS of usage - that's pathetic and it's obviously a poor design. There is no "buffer tube fix" aside from swapping out the tube for a new one every year. At best, you can get the anti-tilt H2 buffer. So, basically, you have to buy an aftermarket component to fix an inherent problem in Ruger's system that they refuse to fix.
The FACT is that it's a bad design. Period.
fixed.Quote:
So, basically, you have to buy an aftermarket component to fix an inherent problem in MOST, IF NOT ALL SHORT STROKE PISTON AR'S