Looked into the POF lowers or even the Larue? Sun Devil?
I believe Rainer sells three generations of the POF billet lower as well as SD.
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Looked into the POF lowers or even the Larue? Sun Devil?
I believe Rainer sells three generations of the POF billet lower as well as SD.
If I had to choose a billet lower (I prefer forged), I would go with the new Mega one coming out soon.
Mega has a more "clean" look without the aggressive styling of the Spike's (the "biohazard" thing is just over the top). And the new lowers will also have an ambi-bolt release, too, which is pretty nice.
If I were you, I would hold off for a week or two and see what AXTS is going to release at SHOT. Apparently they have a revolutionary new lower receiver design that they're going to begin producing.
A billet is usually cut from a piece of extrusion which has it's grain running in only one direction. I'm assuming they cut the billet receivers so the grain runs from front to rear as that's the best. That means the grain is interrupted where the billet is machined out at places like the mag well, trigger housing and at the receiver extension mount.
In a properly made forging, the grain of the metal follows the shape of the forging. This means the flow of the grain can be used to increase strength and rigidity particularly important at points where stress risers occur, such as at the receiver extension mount. Grain density can also be increased. This allows for a stiffer, lighter, more durable part.
This isn't to say a billet made receiver is a poor choice, but overall, a well designed forging is better
I have the Mega one and like it a lot. The quality is excellent.
these ? or something new ?
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...nufacturer=125
Larue is now selling lowers without having to purchase an upper. If I had to have one that is the direction I would go.
Great explanation. I have no experience with metal works, but what your saying leads me to think the extra funds may not be necessary. What do you consider to be a "well made lower"?
As for waiting until after the SHOT show next week, I'm so impatient I might not be able to wait on production. Plus, I'd be paying top $$ for the latest and greatest.
My reason for considering the billet is the tight tollerance they are suppose to have. I hate the AR wiggle! :no: I've got an RA upper coming and they've told me the mega will be an airtight fit.
As for larue, theirs looks are VERY similar to the others. I'm hearing there's only 2 or 3 companies cranking out billet and forged lowers. Everyone gets theirs from the same place and logo's it to their liking. If that's the case, I don't want to overpay for a pricey name.
Decisions, decisions....
Since the lower is prolly the least critical part of the assembly, I wouldn't feel bad about buying a $69.99 Palmetto Arms special (allegedly made by Aero Precision). Actually, since I brought that up, I believe Aero Precision makes one of the sharpest looking lowers I've seen, and from what I hear they are fine. Not expensive, either.
Tightness of upper to lower fit is irrelevant. In fact, it can actually get in the way of taking your weapon down to clear certain types of malfunctions. My suggestion is to learn how to live with whatever clearance your upper to lower has.Quote:
As for waiting until after the SHOT show next week, I'm so impatient I might not be able to wait on production. Plus, I'd be paying top $$ for the latest and greatest.
My reason for considering the billet is the tight tollerance they are suppose to have. I hate the AR wiggle! :no: I've got an RA upper coming and they've told me the mega will be an airtight fit.
I own a billet lower. A Seekins, in fact. I bought it because a friend of mine made them to advertise his company, and I like to support my friends. I wouldn't have bought a billet lower in a million years, otherwise. For $100 you can get a lot of forged lower.Quote:
As for larue, theirs looks are VERY similar to the others. I'm hearing there's only 2 or 3 companies cranking out billet and forged lowers. Everyone gets theirs from the same place and logo's it to their liking. If that's the case, I don't want to overpay for a pricey name.
Decisions, decisions....
A hot forging is made by heating the metal until it's in it's plastic state, then forced by pressure into the desired shape. When the metal flows, the grain follows the direction of the flow. A properly designed forging will take advantage of this, using the grain flow to strengthen the part.
This I can speak of from my training and experiences I've had during my career in aviation. During a company sponsored visit to a forging plant, we learned that the windscreen frame for the cockpit of one airliner, due to it's unique shape, could only be made by forging. When made from cast or machined from a billet, the frame would crack at the corners due to stress risers. When forged, they made sure the flow and density of the grain was used to strengthen the corners and reduce stress risers.
Considering the simplicity of the shape and relatively small size of AR receivers, it shouldn't be a daunting task for the engineering team of a receiver manufacturer to ensure the forging dies and process to control flow and grain density are used to best advantage. However, since I am in no way privy to inside information, it's all conjecture on my part, so I said "properly designed".
Others can tell you better than I, but from what I gather from posts made on this forum, when it comes to stripped upper & lower receivers, with a few exceptions, parts is parts.
Personally, I would advise against receivers not made from 7075 or 7175 (the latter used by Armalite to forge AR10 receivers). The properties of 7xxx series aluminum makes it stronger and more durable than the 60xx series alloy used by one company for it's receivers.
You will never be entirely free from the AR Wiggle. Competitors using ARs have tried and failed to eliminate it from their rifles in the pursuit of the ultimate in accuracy. Initially, an upper & lower can be fitted so there is no wiggle but the rifle with use will wear and there will be play. They have also found the play does not affect accuracy.
My thoughts are, to eliminate the play between the upper & lower, one would need to design the receivers with pressed bushings and when they wear, the busings and pins could be changed to tighten up the fit again. This would keep the fit tight longer without wallowing out the holes in the receivers. Since this wouldn't change accuracy, I wouldn't do it unless it's demonstrated that pin hole wear is damaging to the receivers. Since this hasn't been demonstrated to be a problem, bushing the receivers wouldn't be worth the trouble.
This is to say, you're just going to have to learn to live with the AR Wiggle!