Which is the best overall suppressor for the M4 with a 14.5" barrel using M855? Money is not a factor here only quality of function and sound signature.
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Which is the best overall suppressor for the M4 with a 14.5" barrel using M855? Money is not a factor here only quality of function and sound signature.
My PD is lovin our Surefire FA556-212's. We have them on everything from our 16" patrol rifles down to our 11.5" Tac Entry guns.
I like the tone of the Ops cans for sound quality. They are close in terms of overall sound reduction, but their mounting solution makes them a little less appealing than the others.
I have the 2006 M4-2000 which is essentially the current M4-1000, and it sounds far different from the SF can Grant recommends, the 212, I think it is.
Both were quiet, the SF sounded a little better in tone.
I'm now all in on AAC cans, and I'm waiting for the 762-SDN-6 to come in. I'll probably pick up a Mini4 after they are out for a little while.
Define "best".
FWIW, the SF can is supposed to have the least POI shift. I have the M4-2000 mod 8 and really like it.
I think someone like the member "Molon" here, would have to do the real testing to get to the root of that claim, from all camps.
A suppressor could hit POA = POI with a can on, take the can off, and have it hit 3MOA low at 100yds and you would still get A zone hits that might otherwise be written off as poor technique, ammo inconsistency, wind, etc.
Wonder if Molon is in a suppressor state, and if he would ever be interested in such detailed analysis???
I think it's very difficult for a particular member to give such an opinion because most do not oqn all three.
I have an AAC M4-2000 and it works very good. From what I can see there is very little POI shift. I will see about some non-scientific testing in the near future.
I did fire a KAC suppressor when I was in the military, but the conditions were less than ideal and I can't really make a comparison.
How would you say the AAC Ranger 2 compares to the M4-2000 mod 8 far as performance? I was thinking I don't really need a QD mount so a thread mound would work and the cost looks very good.
stay with the quick detach for an M4 jack...i would love to own any of the top shelf cans you have listed. My wallet and the crazy offer i got from my class iii buddy put me into a ss phantom that I use on a 12.5"
It's a good robust unit and other than being a boat anchor, I can't complain. If the throw down $$$$ was not an issue, I would pick the SF only to have something different as u see a lot of aac down here.
A buddy of mine has the ranger but i just don't like direct thread on most AR platforms.
Well I only know one person personally who owns a K can. He says the POI shift at 100 yds is less than 1.5" and is repeatable. That seems pretty good. By comaprison, on my 18" Noveske the POI shift with my M42K is 3" at 100 yards and repeatable (I never shoot my 6933 with the can off). Fortunately it's entirely elevation with no windage shift at all, which is easily corrected for.
Perhaps we should request members who own these cans to go out and do some formal bench testing and post pics of targets with both suppressed and unsuppressed groups, with no sighting adjustments?
Well from what I've heard here and on other forums I think I'll go with the AAC M4-2000 mod 8 for my Colt M4 A2 with 14.5" barrel. All that remains now is a 3-4 month waite.
In a few months I should have a Mini and 212, with access to a number of different platforms to try it out on, as well as a M4-2007, and possibly an M4-2008. I'll try to get some decent data, but mind you I will be a sample of but one end user.
I have an NT4, and have heard the other two. The KAC can has a deeper tone to it than the other two, which makes it more pleasant to my ears, despite not doing as well as the others in the "DB rating" category.
I'm sure all three meet the standards in durabilty, but you can really tell that the NT4 is built like a tank. It's a heavy sumbitch!
The AAC (I owned a Mod. 08) can is lighter, and the KAC can has less shift IMO.
They sound almost identical to me, the KAC sounds a little better to me because it's a little deeper.
Decibels don't mean much, except on paper.
Well this was what I got back from a guy at T1G about the SF can.
Quote:
The SF can's are nice but I have had 2 of them break on me using M855. The 1st baffle was knocked out and then the rest got knocked out after the 2nd round hit the knocked out baffle and send the round tumbling through the rest. I called SF and they said it's never happend to them.... (sure).... a week later one of my instructors had the same thing happen.
Right. DB rating with a gun shooting a bullet that breaks the sound barrier is pointless.
All that really matters (to me) is POI of shift.
Both of my AAC cans have a POI shift of about 3 inches at 100yds. Now that doesn't sound like a whole lot, but if I am shooting at someone at 200yds, now I am 6 inches off. This becomes a problem.
C4
I'm gonna ask a dumb question now. If I leave the can on the rifle all the time, POI shift doesn't mean anything, correct? I would sight it in with the can on, then it doesn't matter what it is without the can if I'm not going to shoot it without it. I've thought about the Gemtech Trek, but now I'm considering the G5 and the AAC M42K as well.
SF uses M855 for their testing since it is the current MIL round.
As an aside, while I agree that arguing over 1 or 2 dB with a supersonic round is not productive, I do think that dB ratings factor heavily into the picture- sure, the bullet flight is loud, but the difference at the muzzle between 135 and 145 is huge in terms of the shooter's experience. if sound doesn't matter with a supersonic round, why even have a can at all?
Another note, the average shooter will never ever burn out the KAC, AAC, or SF can.
there are lots of criteria for choosing a 5.56 can (I think I wrote an article on this, but if not maybe I should...)
First, eliminate anyone working out of their garage. I don't care HOW cool it looks, he's working out of his garage. Stick with the big boys like AAC, Gemtech, Ops Inc., KAC, Surefire, etc. You know, people that do this for a living. At that point DB ratings become almost meaningless.
After that, you have:
- weight
- length
- length added to gun/barrel
- mounting system
- mount itself
- cost
- POI shift
- multi-platform?
- multi-caliber?
- etc.
Baffle strikes are almost always related to issues with the bullet, barrel or mount installation. I had a strike caused by the latter and SF fixed it free of charge.
Maybe I got lucky. My KAC can (soon to be plural there) only has a 1.3'' shift vertically. (Up.)
Does anybody have similar?
I AAC can I had had a 4 shift even. (two inches right and two inches up)
I do admit that the AAC can handled a little better on the LWRCi than the KAC did on the KAC.
I'm sure it was because of the light weight muzzle device on the piston gun, vs the kind of heavier device on the lighter DI gun though. YMMV and all.
Why would it be pointless? Breaking the sound barrier does not necessarily indicate a loud sound. It does mean that there will be pressure created, in the case of bullets the volume of this pressure is somewhat small and being pushed out in front and to the sides of the bullet - the shooter will not receive much of that pressure.
On the downrange side of the shot, an observer close to the path of the bullet will hear the supersonic crack but depending on their orientation to the round passing they might be unable to correctly guess the direction the shot was fired from.
One of the main reasons for a suppressed weapon is to mask the origin of the shot to prevent detection and aid in follow up shots.
I've seen a chart that indicated the approximate dB for the supersonic crack of a .308 round fired from 1300fps to 3700fps is right at 140 in all cases measured 10yds from the target line . Therefore lowering the muzzle report from ~160dB to ~130dB with a suppressor makes a huge difference in overall loudness to a close observer.
Vinson
It can be huge, but as long as is it is hearing safe (16" gun), then I am not sure that it really matters and if it isn't hearing safe (like on a 10.5 AR), then it REALLY doesn't matter as you will be wearing hearing protection any way.
From a training standpoint, the odds that everyone in a carbine class will be running a can is about zero. So you are will always be wearing ears. So again, 1-15db difference does not matter.
What does matter is being in that same carbine class, deciding to remove your can and shoot at 10" targets at over 200yds and still being able to hit the target.
C4
You cannot suppress the sound barrier jump. So you are always going to get a loud noise that is sometimes hearing safe and sometimes not (depending on barrel length).
Sure.Quote:
On the downrange side of the shot, an observer close to the path of the bullet will hear the supersonic crack but depending on their orientation to the round passing they might be unable to correctly guess the direction the shot was fired from.
Correct AND flash suppression. Splitting hairs ove a couple DB's though when POI shift is a more important issue is my point.Quote:
One of the main reasons for a suppressed weapon is to mask the origin of the shot to prevent detection and aid in follow up shots.
C4
I've noticed a big difference in zero shift when using different ammunition types as well.
With my AAC M4-2000, I get a 4:30 3" shift with XM-193 bullets, but with 75 and 77 gr bullets, the shift is reduced to 1"
The same can will give different POI shifts on different guns. My M4-1000 puts my POI 1" high at a hundred on one 14.5" barrel, and 4-5" low on another 14.5" barrel.
POI shift claims by companies should be about as valuable to you as their Db claims.... ;)
Correct. That is why I test all can's on the SAME barrel.
With SF cans, RARELY have I seen anything on over 1MOA on many different barrels. I have also compared notes with other C3 dealers and they report the same (in regards to SF cans having small POI shifts).
On the other hand, the smallest POI shift I have ever seen for a NON SF can is 1MOA, with the average being around 3-4MOA.
C4