Yeah...It's Loaded...

When reading the article it seems that the reactions these ladies get are positive for the most part. I say good for them! The only thing they don't really go into detail about is the type of training any of them have had. They mention that Caitlens dad is Ex-SF but that's really it.

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Originally Posted by Gutshot John

To be honest that kind of reasoning is a bit self-serving. I would contend that it's the responsible exercise of 2a rights that will win the public over.

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Originally Posted by Palmguy

... exposure of the general public to law-abiding citizens exercising their 2A rights is a significant factor.

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:blink:

Forgive me for not explicitly spelling it out; "responsible" was implied in my statement.

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Originally Posted by Gutshot John

I've been around guns a good bit of my life, and I shoot regularly. I still feel a bit hinky when I see someone carry openly. I don't think they're crooks, I just question their judgment if not in the proper context.

If you're out ranging your spread, on a hunt or if you're attending a gun rights rally where everyone is OC, go for it. Walking around day to day with an AR slung over your shoulder or a han solo holster seems like you've either got a chip on your shoulder or giving the bad guys all the notice they need to ambush you. Neither seems like good judgment to me.

Just because you have the ability to do something, doesn't mean you always should.

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I wasn't talking about whether or not it is appropriate to OC in any particular circumstance. I was talking about a more macro, top level view; theorizing that the idea that normal Americans can responsibly own, use, and carry firearms has been marginalized as time has marched on. Far too many people have the view that gun = cop or bad guy, and that is largely a result of guns not being as integral a part of American life anymore for a lot of people and in a lot of geographic areas.

The article certainly was not professional. Boob shot over the pizza? Come on.

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Originally Posted by skyugo

it's been said before, but open carry does about as much for gun rights as assless chaps do for gay rights.

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You owe me a new keyboard and a Coke!

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Originally Posted by Littlelebowski

The article certainly was not professional. Boob shot over the pizza? Come on.

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You going soft on us, Lebowski?

Nah, I forwarded the article to my wife and she pointed out it seemed to be about eye candy and making guns sexy to her. I think she's mostly right.

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Originally Posted by Littlelebowski

Nah, I forwarded the article to my wife and she pointed out it seemed to be about eye candy and making guns sexy to her. I think she's mostly right.

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Well, with the last girl aside, I tend to agree.


J

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Originally Posted by Littlelebowski

The article certainly was not professional. Boob shot over the pizza? Come on.

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Not that I'm complaining, who doesn't love boobs?, but it really did take away from what could've been a pretty informative subject and the possibility of being taken seriously.

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Originally Posted by skyugo

it's been said before, but open carry does about as much for gun rights as assless chaps do for gay rights.

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I'd have to disagree with your assessment. The OC group here in Las Vegas has gone to great lengths to educate our public and police officers about gun laws. Not too long ago the OC guys were getting treated like criminals by many of our Metro officers who didn't understand or chose to ignore our current gun laws. After a lot of hard work they helped our officers receive additional gun law training which has benefited everyone from the LEOs to the OC'ing citizen.

The one area I think they push their agenda a little too far is OC'ing on the Strip with so many foreign tourists and visitors from other states who aren't used to seeing openly displayed firearms. I believe that their intentions are noble and it's to further educate other people but it might not be the best place to do it with so many drunk wingnuts.

I'd agree that the pics ween't too bad except for the last woman. The boob shot had me looking for another one and then the last woman shows up and ruins it all :mad:

The article could have been a bit more professional. That probably would have had a better effect.

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Originally Posted by Irish

...who doesn't love boobs?

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Lebowski. :sarcastic:

Speaking of agendas, my observations have been that some OC activist-types seem to do more harm than good by actively looking for "gotcha" moments with the coppers or business owners where they can jump up and down about their rights and "educate" the people. I'm sure you know the type -- the ones with their camcorder or phone camera always at the ready or with their personal cameraman in tow.

I'm not a fan of open-carry but, in the case of the 20-yr old with the nice boo... er, holster, she's not able to obtain a concealed permit so, she has no legal alternative.

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Originally Posted by skyugo

that's an interesting point. Thing is, we're not trying to change the minds of people who are already ok with guns, we're trying to change the minds of people who are terrified of weapons. I think with people like this it creates a roadblock to any sort of dialogue if you have a gun on you visibly.
As with assless chaps, there's a time and place for everything.

i will say that i think women open carrying tends to send a better message. Just kinda seems... friendlier? I won't make an assless chaps analogy for this. :)

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So you have a sexist view of the world where women are more entitled to exercise their rights?

:D

Seriously, I get your point. FL "briefly" had open carry back in the 80s before adopted conceal carry permits. What happened is exactly what you are talking about. A bunch of ****ing biker types started packing heat openly and completely freaked out all the elderly New Yorkers who live here half the year. And they voted accordingly.

But that was also a time when gun rights, especially those concerned with personal carry and defense were very different. We actually have greater freedom these days. And part of the problem was it seemed only the questionable looking folks decided to open carry during that period. The average citizen didn't know they could or think it necessary (this is because the idea of legal carry was still alien to most).

So as we cannot impose grooming standards for open carry, the solution is to make it a legal option for those who currently are licensed to carry concealed. That way when it becomes almost commonplace it won't have the same impact or shock value.

And there is also a practical aspect. Consider carrying a defensive firearm in the southern states during the summer.

Your basic choices are a fanny pack (which isn't fooling anyone and might as well have "gun" printed on it) or a vest (which also isn't fooling anyone). So while concealed, neither of the options is really any different from open carry.

All your other choices, which actually conceal the fact that you have a weapon, include various IWB and ankle holster setups. These are generally more difficult to access and in some cases so uncomfortable they discourage daily carry. With your typical IWB carry you need an undershirt or else you need to accept gun metal (and lubricants) pressed against your skin all day or need to suffer double shirts in the summer. Even worse is the guy who uses a "tucked" setup. To say he is at an extreme disadvantage to access his weapon in a defensive situation is an understatement.

For the typical FL guy wearing shorts and a polo, concealment can be a real challenge, especially if you want immediate access to your defensive firearm. But with conceal carry with open carry as an "option" most of those problems are solved. But the current environment of "guns must be hidden" basically sends a message that "guns are still bad" and that is what needs to change.