What would be better? I'm looking at either the Eotech 551 or 552. Or the Aimpoint M2 or ML2. This would be for home defense and 3 gun matches if I can make it to them. Thanks
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What would be better? I'm looking at either the Eotech 551 or 552. Or the Aimpoint M2 or ML2. This would be for home defense and 3 gun matches if I can make it to them. Thanks
You've opened a can of worms so to speak with this question. You'll see there is no shortage of opinions.
I have tried both the Eotech and the Aimpoint.
I'm more comfortable with the Aimpoint and for me it's more natural and faster.
Another Aimpoint vote
But try the search feature....been done to death
I am a huge Aimpoint M2 proponent. Eotech's aren't necessarily bad, I just don't care for the outer ring. Personal preference is the key here. I know many guys who are the exact opposite. They actually like to use the outer ring of the EoTech for CQB. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
The new Elcan Spectre DR looks like a winner! It may be the best thing coming down the pipe. This thing has it all! I am interested on how it performs "down range." It is all the buzz right now in "gunfighter" circles.
Time will tell if it is everything it is touted to be.
On my personal general purpose and shorty rifles I still run the M2, I prefer it to all the other so called "up graded" Aimpoint models as well.
For me, there is no better reticle that the Eotech reticle for shooting and moving. However, I have had Eotechs crap out on me and the battery life and auto shut-off means you cannot leave it turned on for immediate use, like in a HD scenario.
My home rifle wears an Aimpoint. The SWAT rifle, where I have time to turn it on and 20 other guys with guns around me, has an Eotech.
I like the EOTech
Aimpoint.
Better battery life. Holds zero. More durable.
After shooting both extensively I much prefer the Aimpoint. I have a H1, 2 C3s and a M2. I prefer the minimum of 10x the battery life of Aimpoints vs. EOTechs, the Aimpoint I find more rugged when in a good mount like a LaRue and I don't find that temperature changes the zero like it does on the EOTechs I've owned. I've even demo'd the Aimpoint with the objective end cap closed to show that one can still make good hits at 50yds without even seeing through the Aimpoint if shooting with both eyes open (and I'm left eye dominant and right handed). On a timer I am a few 100ths of a sec. faster with the EOTech.
It really comes down to personal preference, but I prefer the Aimpoint because:
The battery life of the Aimpoint eclipses any of the Eotechs by a WIDE margin
The Aimpoints control knob is much more functional to me, especially under stress or while wearing gloves
As M4 mentioned, being able to use the Aimpoint with the front lense cover closed gives some flexibility when transitioning quickly from indoor to bright sunlight or with flashlights without having to make adjustments
I do NOT like the Eotechs auto shut-off function
For ME the Eotechs dot in a circle reticle is just too busy
Nobody can answer that except you.
Personally I prefer the Aimpoint. I find that I am able to use one with better consistency than an EOTech sight, and I prefer the easier function and better battery life of the Aimpoint.
You may find that the EOTech works better for you than the Aimpoint.
The answer here is to try out both if possible and see which one works better for you.
I prefer the Aimpoint.
I too tried to like the EOTech, but couldn't get past the battery life, auto shut-off, and durability issues (my first was somewhat intermittant while firing). I hear good things about the 553 though and may have to give them another chance.
Stephen
I have both, and I shoot both.
It really boils down to personal preference.
Although the 512 EOTech has a lower buy-in...
I've tried both and use neither. But if I ever do sell out, I'll get the Aimpoint.
The Eotech reticle reminds me of TOP GUN or something. :D
I also have both but I prefer the Aimpoint, I pick up the dot much quicker.
Both are excellent though
I had an Aimpoint M2 for several years and ended seeling it to jump on the EOTech bandwagon. It's a good sight, but I feel more comfortable with the Aimpoint and it's superior battery life and sold the EOTech and got an Aimpoint M3L.
I own both. Eotech is faster, but busier. Aimpoint is more rugged and has way better battery life.
Tough choice, but I would most likely go Aimpoint.
I prefer an EOTech.
The "busier" reticle seems better for really quick/close shots. Also, the center dot is 1 MOA which is more precise than the Aimpoint dots.
I own an EOTech, but am not very experienced with either.
Joe Mamma
Use Aimpoints on half your rifles and Eotechs on the rest.....problem solved!!!
Battery life
No Auto Shut off
Simple 4MOA "Dot Of Death"
More rugged
no battery compartment issues with batteries (Seen lots of threads on corrosion.. yeah, I know it's the battery.. but it still happens more then with an Aimpoint)
Like the rotary dial better
No pixalated reticle
I see no advantages to an EOTech
Aimpoint all the way......
if you want an Eotech with just the dot, look at the 552.D1 model.
I have one. it ONLY has a ~1 moa dot, & you can adjust the size of the dot by turning the power up or down.
i understand i am basically blooming the dot... but since there is no 65 MOA ring to bloom the rest of the view, this works just fine.
I'm not being a smart ass, and I'm definitely not an expert on these optics. But, my EOTech 553 has long battery life (1100 hrs is long to me) and auto shut off (at 4 or 8 hours whichever I prefer). It's got 20 brightness settings (from very bright to barely visible), plus another 10 settings for NV.
I can't really comment on durabilty but, I think it's pretty solid.
Joe Mamma
I prefer the Eotech but I believe the Aimpoint to be a more durable and proven optic. Go with an ML3 with Larue mount and your set.
Re battery life. EOTech advertises 1100 hrs. I have 4 (3 552's and one 553), and none has a recorded battery life of over 400 hrs.
The fact that there is an auto shut off is a killer for me. The Aimpoints stay on all of the time>
Re durability- the battery box may not be sealed. The battery contact springs are weak and crush under high round counts (we advise to carry a hemostat...)
The EOTech is a decent sight , but from my experience and for my purposes, the Aimpoint M3/ M4/ M4B and Micro have it all over the EO.
This isn't "personal preference". This is about having equipment that is demonstrably better.
Note that i have EO's, Aimpoints and Short Dots available for use by students at class.
The below is from Alumni Site.
Some things that need to be considered when purchasing a military combat optic that you’ll trust with your life is durability, reliability, simplicity, and life cycle costs. The intent is not to create a debate about which optic is the best but to compare life cycle costs of military combat optics based on Apples and Apples as best possible, thus I used only the data provided by each manufacturer for their optics that are NVD compatible for military use, manufacturers suggested retail price, as well as an approximate battery cost based on a Google search.
Those optics compared were only that are in use by the U.S. military and have a 1X to 3X or 4X magnification capability, thus the Trijicon TA01NSN-DOC with 1X Docter Optic, the new M68 CCO Aimpoint CompM4 w/3X Magnifier in a Twist Mount, Schmidt & Bender 1.1-4X Short Dot II, ELCAN SpecterDR, and the EOTech 552.A65 & 557.AR223 w/ both 3X & 4x Magnifiers used by the Military.
Aimpoint CompM4 w/3XMagnifier & Twist Mount MSR + Life Cycle Cost $1486
Life Cycle Cost - 80,000 Hours w/ AA Lithium Battery
CompM4 MSR $780 + 3X Magnifier MSR $535 + Twist Mount MSR $171
Weight - CompM4 335g + 3X Magnifier w/Twist Mount 300g = 635g
ELCAN SpecterDR MSR + Life Cycle Cost $2100
Life Cycle Cost - 2,000 Hours w/ CR 1/3N Lithium = 40 Batteries X $3.49 ea = $140
SpecterDR $1960 + Life Cycle Costs $140
Weight - 598g
Schmidt & Bender 1.1-4X Short Dot II MSR + Life Cycle Cost $2975
Life Cycle Cost – 100 Hours CR2032 Battery = $776
1.1-4X Short Dot II MSR $2199 + Life Cycle Cost $776
Weight – 570gr
Trijicon TA01NSN-DOC MSR + Life Cycle Cost $1605
Life Cycle Cost – 10 Years Tritium + 17,000 Hours CR2032 Battery = 5 Batteries X $0.97 = $5
TA01NSN-DOC MSR $1600 + Life Cycle Cost $5
Weight – 424g
EOTech 552.A65 w/ 3X & Flip Mount MSR + Life Cycle Cost $1373
Life Cycle Cost – 1100 Hours AA Lithium Battery = 146 Batteries X $2.50 ea = $365
552.A65 MSR $479 + Life Cycle $365 + 3X w/ Flip Mount MSR $529
Weight – 552.A65 326g + 3X w/ Flip Mount 297g = 623g
EOTech 557.AR223 w/ 3X & Flip Mount MSR + Life Cycle Cost $1463
Life Cycle Cost – 1100 Hours AA Lithium Battery = 146 Batteries X $2.50 ea = $365
557.AR223 MSR $569 + Life Cycle $365 + 3X w/ Flip Mount MSR $529
Weight – 557.AR223 326g + 3X w/ Flip Mount 297g = 623g
EOTech 552.A65 w/ 4X & Flip Mount MSR + Life Cycle Cost $1703
Life Cycle Cost – 1100 Hours AA Lithium Battery = 146 Batteries X $2.50 ea = $365
552.A65 MSR $479 + Life Cycle $365 + 4X w/ Flip Mount MSR $859
Weight – 552.A65 326g + 4X w/ Flip Mount 453g = 779g
EOTech 557.AR223 w/ 4X & Flip Mount MSR + Life Cycle Cost $1793
Life Cycle Cost – 1100 Hours AA Lithium Battery = 146 Batteries X $2.50 ea = $365
557.AR223 MSR $569 + Life Cycle $365 + 4X w/ Flip Mount MSR $859
Weight – 557.AR223 326g + 4X w/ Flip Mount 453g = 779g
The M68 CCO CompM4
The CompM4 is the latest version of the US Army’s M68 CCO (Close-Combat Optic), continuing what Aimpoint has maintained since 1997. Improvements include improved energy efficiency that provides up to 8 years of continuous use from a single AA battery. The CompM4 incorporates an integral mount that eliminates the need for a separate ring, and can be customized with vertical and forward spacers to fit a variety of weapon systems. The performance of the CompM4 is optimized for use with all generations of night vision devices (NVDs), but is especially suited for 3rd generation night vision technology. Aimpoint’s unique band-pass coating on the front lens reflects select frequencies of red light at near 100% efficiency in order to give the highest possible dot brightness with the smallest amount of energy while transmitting nearly 100% of light in the Infrared and near-infrared part of the spectrum to provide the clearest, brightest image possible when used with a 3rd generation NVD. The CompM4 has 7 NVD compatible brightness settings and 9 Daylight settings including one extra-bright setting. The M68 CCO CompM4 Aimpoint excels in close combat operations and when combined with an Aimpoint 3X Magnifier it provides a great combat optic for engagements easily out to 500 yards.
Elcan SpecterDR Dual Role 1x and 4x Combat Sight
SpecterDR represents a revolution in optical sight design. A dual field of view combat optical sight that combines close
and precision fire ranged combat features. SpecterDR switches instantly from 4x magnified sight to a 1x CQB sight at the throw of a lever. Unlike zoom sights, the SpecterDR offers an optimized optical path and identical eye relief in both 4x and 1x modes. Depending on the situation, the user may adjust the sight to illuminate the entire crosshair or just a 1.5 MoA dot in the center.
The TA01NSN-DOC combines the technology of the battle-tested Trijicon ACOG (4x32) gun sight with the
Docter Optic Red Dot sight. This provides shooters the option of quick acquisition close range sighting with the Docter
Sight and the precision for longer range shooting with the Trijicon ACOG 4x32. The Docter Sight used has a 7.0 MOA dot. (Advertised battery life for the Docter optic is 17,000 hours. Use by Marines in Iraq found the Docter fragile during combat use with battery life far less than advertised.)
Trijicon and USMC briefing points about using the ACOG:
The Chevron should be illuminated red. The illumination provided by the tritium lamp is very faint and will be hard to
see without a dark-adapted eye. Remain in the dark room for approximately ten minutes to adapt your eyes to the dark. The ACOG is a 4 power scope. When using it to engage targets at close distances, the magnification can slow down your reaction time. The fiber optic/Tritium Red Chevron is faint to non-existent when going from bright outdoors to dark indoors (as is the case during daylight urban operations), when using a weapon mounted light in a dark enclosure/building, and shooting at targets from a dark enclosure/interior to a bright exterior/outdoor.
Those shooters that are cross-eye dominant, meaning they are using their non-dominate eye behind the optic, will experience a shift in POI when using both eyes open shooting. Encourage these shooters to transition to their dominant side. The only other option is to use the optic like a traditional scope and close the non-shooting eye. The disadvantage of this choice is it’s much slower in close quarters shooting.
Night vision devices like the AN/PVS-7B or AN/PVS-14 can be used behind the ACOG to display a magnified image at
night. Mounting AN/PVS-14 behind the ACOG on the rail system would require that the ACOG be moved forward a great
deal and a loss of zero would result, this method is not recommended. Mounting the AN/PVS-14 in front of the ACOG on
the extra rail space is not recommended either because the AN/PVS-14 is not a true inline night sight. The AN/PVS-14
produces an image viewable at night by multiplying existing light by an exponential amount. When placing a precise
aiming point (ACOG reticle) on the display of the night vision, the accuracy on the true image cannot be guaranteed.
Trijicon and USMC Warnings about using the ACOG on the battlefield:
Optic uses Radioactive Materials and is considered a Radiation Hazard. The ACOG contains radioactive material for
nighttime illumination. The human body does not easily retain hydrogen or Tritium as a gas. However, the oxide, HTO,
which is formed by the burning of the Tritium, is 10,000 times more hazardous. Be cautious if ACOG is burning.
I like the EOTech myself. I'm just a wee bit faster with it.
The only thing I like better about the Eotech is the wider field of view. I used the Aimpoints for work even the old old mosels and never had a problem with them function wise. I started liking the Eotech's FOV but after ordering the Comp M4 for a customer im going to have to get me one.
FOV??? Guys, you are keeping both eyes open and looking through a lens affixed to a chassis.
One is rectangulkar, and one is circular.
There is no magnification. There are no FOV issues with either.
Pat I think in a old post that something should be loctited from the factory on the Comp M4 from tha factory?
The M4 Mount / Optic is three pieces- The optic, a QRP 2 rail grabber and the spacer.
The original mounts were not Loctited. Eventually they shook loose. I commented on this to Aimpoint and last week I spoke with the president of Aimpoint, Lennart Ljungfelt, who advised that the new screws would have a thread locking compound applied at the factory>
Pretty responsive company, and when you consider how many hundrerds of thousands Aimpoints have been sold to the military, it is encouraging.
I have been running the Larue Mounts on the M4 and T1. Those mounts come with loctite.
I have one Aimpoint and an Aimpoint/Larue on order for another gun.
I thank you all for your replies. I hope to check out a few. But living in BFE it's hard to find a dealer with them so I may take a peek.
Hey Bushy come down and we will go shooting and we can figure out what you like.
I love my EOTech 512 - Very fast acquisition and superb construction. Battery life is really good too, even without the Lithiums. Just wish those magnifiers weren't so darned expensive. I'd recommend it to anyone.
I love that pretty red haired Lady that makes my days shine. I love My dog.
But, if you want to "love" an inanimate object, have at it.;)
M4C is starting to get like tos in some things. One person, who may or may not have the ability to actually understand what works/ doesn't, having one item that he/ she may/ may not use, and not actually having seen a few hundred/ thousand articles, has an opinion based on what?
For example, LR, can you articulate what constitutes "superb construction". As compared to what? A BMW? A Leapers?
"Really good battery life"?. Compared to what. Have you done an actual test. That is, turn it on for 8 hrs and record the actual length of the workable battery life?
I have, on 4 articles. No, i haven't done it with an Aimpoint :eek: as i don't have a spare 80,000 hrs around.
What i did do is take an expended battery out of a 552 RevF and place it in a Comp M4. That was a month ago- it still works in the Comp M4.
Seperating the wheat from the chaff- or conjecture from reality, will always be a challenge- especially around guns....