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Quote:
Originally Posted by
P2000
Oh, I misunderstood your first post. I thought you meant there are two AK's with optics that weigh less than an SR-15 without optics. Nevermind.
No stamped steel gun from the 1940s with optics is going to be lighter than a SR15 with irons :lol::lol::lol:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alex V
Very good info indeed!
I'm still a noob but after two carbine classes I came to the conclusion that my AR at 8+lbs is way to heavy for me.
Looks like it's time to save up for an SR15. Sure as he'll would like to hold one first before I drop $2K+ on it but alas, in NJ that is not going to happen. Might warrant a trip to PA
Alex, before you spend over 2000$ on a KAC rifle, what do you currently use? I would say you probably could just get a Magpul CTR and a Knights rail(some places will install it, or order a new upper from BCM) and you will be fine. I would guess nearly all the weight savings is really in the CTR and the rail. I realize that the barrel is also very light, but I really question the difference that it makes and at what cost(accuracy,money, and resistance to heat)? There are more accurate, fluted or dimpled, and different profiles available.
I know the KAC bolt is cool, but I do not really believe it is needed that badly. Many people here swear by the reliability of ARs with normal bolts, and I think that parts replacement will be an issue later on. I never had a failure to extract with my SR15, but it was not 100% reliable as many would make you believe. I am not trying to say the SR15 is not reliable, just I really do not feel it is any better than any of my issued M16A2s. Its just as polished of a turd as a polished turd can be :) I would not go to the range and bet anyone with a military style AK that your rifle will be more reliable.... The AR15 magazine has some issues, and that is not even talking about the few issues that the design has with parts reliability and maintenance.
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Chris,
Point well made, and point taken.
However, the benefits of the SR15 are not only the weight, but the ambi lower. That is what it's the main driving force for me, but this is not the thread to discuss this. It's the added benefit of the weight which brings me to considering that rifle.
Right now I have a MOE stock (pinned one click from full collapsed, NJ sucks) but I am sure the Troy 12" MRF CX and FSB are not helping in the weight or balance department. With a pinned brake from the factory I had few options for a longer rail. In hind sight, I should have bought the DD equivalent which would have saved some weight. But I an done trying to fix the short comings on that rifle.
I'm in the process of gathering parts to build a LW rifle for my fiancé. I got her an 11" TRX extreme and the weight difference to the MRF is very noticeable.
We shall see how light her rifle comes out to be. Maybe I'll build myself a similar upper and use a KAC lower. Could be the way to go.
Okay, back on topic. Sorry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alex V
Chris,
Point well made, and point taken.
However, the benefits of the SR15 are not only the weight, but the ambi lower. That is what it's the main driving force for me, but this is not the thread to discuss this. It's the added benefit of the weight which brings me to considering that rifle.
Right now I have a MOE stock (pinned one click from full collapsed, NJ sucks) but I am sure the Troy 12" MRF CX and FSB are not helping in the weight or balance department. With a pinned brake from the factory I had few options for a longer rail. In hind sight, I should have bought the DD equivalent which would have saved some weight. But I an done trying to fix the short comings on that rifle.
I'm in the process of gathering parts to build a LW rifle for my fiancé. I got her an 11" TRX extreme and the weight difference to the MRF is very noticeable.
We shall see how light her rifle comes out to be. Maybe I'll build myself a similar upper and use a KAC lower. Could be the way to go.
Okay, back on topic. Sorry
I understand how you feel about the KAC lower, as I kept mine. I really think the only downsides are the compatibility with the redi mag and the fact you still need a BAD lever to actually hold the bolt back as the SR15 only has an ambi bolt release.
I think selling the upper and buying a new one probably is the easiest way to deal with it. Nothing wrong with buying a whole second rifle if that is really what you want. If you cannot have collapsible stocks I would really be tempted to put an A2 stock on it and just build up a 18 or 20 inch barreled rifle. I guess I have too many fond memories of my M16 :) Everyone tells me that going from 14.5 to 16.1 isn't a big deal, and I just feel that 16, to me, feels way more like 18 or 20. I do not think moving up to a 18 or 20 is that big of a deal compared to a 16 inch rifle. Its really like buying a quad cab F150 because the quad cab F250 is too big. If I really want a small ranger or single cab F150, than thats what I want. We are talking 2000$+ rifles here even if you assemble one full of KAC parts, so I really feel the 200$ NFA tax isn't that bad.
I guess in the Peoples Republic of New Jersey, you really do not have those options.... You might as well buy a permed 14.5 if that is really what you want. I guess that makes getting a MK12 clone more appealing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
fhpchris
I understand how you feel about the KAC lower, as I kept mine. I really think the only downsides are the compatibility with the redi mag and the fact you still need a BAD lever to actually hold the bolt back as the SR15 only has an ambi bolt release.
I think selling the upper and buying a new one probably is the easiest way to deal with it. Nothing wrong with buying a whole second rifle if that is really what you want. If you cannot have collapsible stocks I would really be tempted to put an A2 stock on it and just build up a 18 or 20 inch barreled rifle. I guess I have too many fond memories of my M16 :) Everyone tells me that going from 14.5 to 16.1 isn't a big deal, and I just feel that 16, to me, feels way more like 18 or 20. I do not think moving up to a 18 or 20 is that big of a deal compared to a 16 inch rifle. Its really like buying a quad cab F150 because the quad cab F250 is too big. If I really want a small ranger or single cab F150, than thats what I want. We are talking 2000$+ rifles here even if you assemble one full of KAC parts, so I really feel the 200$ NFA tax isn't that bad.
I guess in the Peoples Republic of New Jersey, you really do not have those options.... You might as well buy a permed 14.5 if that is really what you want. I guess that makes getting a MK12 clone more appealing.
Already have a Mk12 clone.. I don't have a fancy digital scale, but on a bathroom scale this guy comes in at 10.2lbs unloaded.
http://avoronoff.hypermart.net/Firea..._AMMO_2_SM.jpg
As for the 14.5" you are right, there is no point in getting a 16" bbl only to have to perm a brake onto it either way. That is my only consurn re. the SR15. There is no way I want to cut that barrel, let alone pay $250 for the tool to remove the rail in order to get to the barrel. lol
To get the best of both worlds I may just build a LW upper and use a SR15 lower with a BAD.
Back to the weight discussion.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alex V
As for the 14.5" you are right, there is no point in getting a 16" bbl only to have to perm a brake onto it either way. That is my only consurn re. the SR15. There is no way I want to cut that barrel, let alone pay $250 for the tool to remove the rail in order to get to the barrel. lol
To get the best of both worlds I may just build a LW upper and use a SR15 lower with a BAD.
Back to the weight discussion.
Just in case you weren't aware, KAC has stated the sr15 will run reliably when the barrel is cut to 14.5". I believe I'm replacing my URX II with a 12" DD RIS II pretty soon and had entertained cutting the barrel to 14.5".
I'm sure there's a couple shops that will cut it there that also sell the sr15, that way you don't have to deal with the URX tool yourself.
I'll edit this post in a bit with a couple of my guns as to stay on topic...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jonconsiglio
Just in case you weren't aware, KAC has stated the sr15 will run reliably when the barrel is cut to 14.5". I believe I'm replacing my URX II with a 12" DD RIS II pretty soon and had entertained cutting the barrel to 14.5".
I'm sure there's a couple shops that will cut it there that also sell the sr15, that way you don't have to deal with the URX tool yourself.
I'll edit this post in a bit with a couple of my guns as to stay on topic...
Yes I'm aware it will run with a 14.5. Just don't want to spend $ on the tool and honestly would not want to mollest such a high quality rifle any more than I would have too lol. There are no shops around me that can do the work, plus all the locals sell it for upwards of $2500. Impact guns has it for just shy of $2k even with the shipping and FFL fees, saving the taxes, it's a much better deal lol.
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Some additional weight info
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Thank you for this very informative thread, pleaforwar! Thank you (and others who provided info) for all the effort you put into this.
Anyone putting together a new rifle needs to spend time here first.
I also vote sticky status!!!
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http://img.tapatalk.com/430883c6-87e8-50b3.jpg
Bcm 14.5" middy upper. T1 in a dd mount. Vltor a5 system with a5h4 buffer. Various 123 batteries and goodies inside the EMOD and MIAD. Aluminum mp trigger guard. IWC sling mount.
No mag: 8.05 lbs.
EDIT: There are a total of 6 CR123 batteries in the stock and grip....and two in the TLR-1s (obviously). CR123 Energizer Photo Lithium Ultimates weigh .6oz each. So subtract 3.6oz for the batteries not in the light and .4oz for the two bottles of Machine Gunner's lube.
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