Is your avatar your head cropped into a scene from 300? That's awesome...
http://tapatalk.com/mu/452fc624-4837-e050.jpg
That's 7 lbs 14 ounces unloaded. Not terribly heavy in my opinion. Nothing is done to reduce weight. Govt. Profile barrel.
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Is your avatar your head cropped into a scene from 300? That's awesome...
http://tapatalk.com/mu/452fc624-4837-e050.jpg
That's 7 lbs 14 ounces unloaded. Not terribly heavy in my opinion. Nothing is done to reduce weight. Govt. Profile barrel.
That is only part of it. The 13" TRX Extreme is much lighter than a 14" DD lite rail and also the 12" DD lite rail because it is a lot less material. I weighed them when planning my latest iteration of the carbine and went with the TRX extreme for it. I used the 14" DD lite rail for an SPR type gun. I like the DD lite rail. I have a few 14" ones on recce and spr type guns and a 10" one on a carbine. But the TRX extreme 13" was significantly (like 6 ounces) due to the lack of rails (less material). These measurements are before the XTM panels :-) (I have almost no XTM panels on the TRX extreme. Just a pair on top where my hand goes and on the side behind the light where my hand goes. The recce and SPR have more panels as I am not as weight sensitive on them)
Is it really 6 ounces? I thought the difference between the 13" Troy and DD 12" was like 3 ounces difference? Maybe because I weighed with all the Troy rail attachments? I could be wrong. I measure a lot of stuff.
I remember weighing an MOE Carbine handgaurd with all the goods to connect it and my Omega X 12" FSB with all the goods to connect it - and I want to say the DD rail was about 2 ounces heavier.
Not knocking any rails here - my point is simply that it's easy to make a rail heavy. Many of the top manufacturers (Troy, DD, etc.) are making rifle length rails that weigh only slightly more then the plastic carbine length handguards. Once you start covering every inch of rail space though - it goes back to being heavy.
**My pictured weight was with 4 ladder covers, X300, XPS2, 3 sling attachment points, BUIS, and empty mag. I do occasionally run XTM panels where needed. They are a great improvement comfort-wise over ladder covers.
I was comparing to the 14" DD LR and that was without any of the rail pieces attached (I only have one on my gun which adds in a little over an ounce so my difference is around 5 ounces but I also have less weight in panels/ladders on the Troy so that swings it back to the Troy being a greater difference).
I used my own weigh-in of the Troy versus the DD website weight on the DD LR 14. The 12" LR is about 2 oz less than the 14.
I actually weighed both the Troy and the DD 14 at the time but only remember the approx Troy weight.
The DD is being used to good effect on a different class of gun.
I like the slim diameter and light weight of the minimalist tubes, but they get hot. I would really like to see someone come up with a way to direct attach SCAR panels without needing to bolt on rails.
Back to topic: 12 and 13 inch rails are long enough for me to mount a light at 10:30 or 1:30 and a front sight without compromising my grip. Any longer and I don't think the weight is worth the length for my use.
Don't forget that you can gain a lot of length by simply extending the stock if you have to pull your grip back due to FSP or 12:00 lasers.
true. and the corollary - one reason I like my DDM4 with 12"FSP rail is because allows me to grip out past the carbine FSB. I shorten the stock to the first notch and this puts the weight more between my hands giving me more control and makes for a shorter gun overall.
I remember going back and forth endlessly between going with a long rail or the 10" that I eventually put on my middy. Everyone at the time, and it looks like it is still the case, was all about long 12+" rails for any build.
What I found, for me, is that the 10" rail was perfectly fine. I am 6'1" and fike F2S said, I can adjust the reach of the support arm by simply extending the stock, and I actually do tend to run it fairly far out, though I tend not to do the whole locking the support elbow thing. I don't need a lot of mounting space. In fact the only things I hang off the forearm are a MBUS, TD Stubby, and a light. The rifle generally has a TR24 on it, so a long sight radius is pretty much irrelevant to me. And, I happen to like the look of the gas block just peeking out from under the rail (and I do love Monty's gas block that he put on my LW CHF Centurion).
The last point, as others have said, is balance. Coming from the fencing world, I LOVE good balance in a weapon. My current one balances right under the mag well, and I would move it even further back if I could (maybe by loading the ACS up with batteries).
Anyway, long post summary, go with what you actually need based on how you handle the gun and what you actually want to do with it.
Pics of mine, for comparison to the long rails
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q...0/DSC_0856.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-g...0/DSC_0010.JPG
railed systems arent as heavy as people think, and FST + handguards arent as light as people think. Longer rail lets me reach further ahead of the rifle so I dont have to extend the stock as much, center of mass is closer to my body. Thats another reason why I like the basic handguard on my ACR over the enhanced rail. I need that extra couple inches so i can retract the stock as much as I can.
My rifle with DD CHF 16" LW Middy Upper + DD 12" Omega X + Magpul MOE buttstock + Eotech 512 weighs ~7.5 lbs. Replace the 12" rail with that lancer carbon fiber 12" tube and the weight can drop another probably down to 7lbs even
Here's link to a number of handguard weights: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...DQ&output=html
Troy TRX is probalby THE lightest rail currently in the market. At 13", it weights 11.43oz, which is lighter than the 12" DD lightweight solution (MFAR) by almost an oz. If you think about it, this is pretty amazing.
Making things light AND strong is harder than making them heavy and strong. The firearms industry is catching onto the ultra light movement, where lighter is (sometimes) better and more expensive.