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Thread: Larry Vickers comments on chrome lined barrels vs nitrated barrels

  1. #21
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    Fluidized Bed Nitrocarburization process is also very well thought of by none other than Mike Rock of Rock Creek Barrels. When Mike Rock speaks metallurgy and barrels I LISTEN INTENTLY...
    "One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep..."

  2. #22
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    For anyone who has a technical background and would like to read some nice articles simply email me and I'll forward you some Technical Papers.
    "One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep..."

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark5pt56 View Post
    Robb, Contact Mark Gordon at Short Action Customs http://shortactioncustoms.com/ he has some great experience with this and uses MMI for the work. As I understand, the heat treatment of the part at manufacture being melonited is critical.
    Kreiger barrels were used by MMI during testing and they are for certain good to go for this. My 6.5 Kreiger is a virgin, he inspected it and has just sent it off to MMI. I don't know who makes the BCM barrel, I would check into that and consult SAC.
    The increased barrel life and velocity is well worth the cost.

    well, this guy says 416R is ok, he used a Barlein, which are top notch also.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiegZyhd5l0

    A quote from replies

    Interesting I have a FMP new in white G3 CHF barrel that I have sittiing around for a G-3 clone build. I keep kicking around the idea of having it melonited what would your thoughts be for me having this process done?

  4. #24
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    Hexavalent Chromium, which is the version generally used for chrome plating, is on the list of verboten materials according to the RoHS initiative foisted upon us by the EU and then accepted by the EPA and various asinine administrations. On that count LAV is correct. Sadly, chrome plating as we know it is gong the way of the dodo bird.

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    Nitride, Nicor, SS Barrels

    Everyone on here can debate all they want. Scientifically, it has been proven that both chromed and Stainless barrels work just fine. Im not sure why people question why major firearms manufactureres like S&W and even LWRC use a nitriding process on ALL of their barrels. Stop debating about it and just accept that its not the 1970s or even 80s anymore and companies have developed ways of not only making barrels just as hard if not harder, last longer, and have natural lubricity built into them.

    Dont believe me....just take your hand and run it over the end of a barrel of a higher end weapon like an Aramlite and then run it over a Smith and Wesson that has been melonite coated. Then come back and tell me that they feel the same. not arguing....but I would hope people would want companies to ffind better and cheaper ways to make better, harder and more accurate barrels that are easier to clean.

    My rant is over.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck1122 View Post
    Everyone on here can debate all they want. Scientifically, it has been proven that both chromed and Stainless barrels work just fine. Im not sure why people question why major firearms manufactureres like S&W and even LWRC use a nitriding process on ALL of their barrels. Stop debating about it and just accept that its not the 1970s or even 80s anymore and companies have developed ways of not only making barrels just as hard if not harder, last longer, and have natural lubricity built into them.

    Dont believe me... just take your hand and run it over the end of a barrel of a higher end weapon like an Aramlite and then run it over a Smith and Wesson that has been melonite coated. Then come back and tell me that they feel the same. not arguing... but I would hope people would want companies to find better and cheaper ways to make better, harder and more accurate barrels that are easier to clean.

    My rant is over.
    While I agree that technology marches onward (and using Tuftride/Melonite/Tenifer/SBN there is no way to tell which is harder by simply running your hand over two barrels. What you're feeling is surface roughness differences only.

    Personally, I'd like a cold hammer forged, polygonal rifled chromium barrel, cryo it to precipitate carbides, then melonite then hard chrome. But that's just me...
    "One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep..."

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck1122 View Post
    Everyone on here can debate all they want. Scientifically, it has been proven that both chromed and Stainless barrels work just fine. Im not sure why people question why major firearms manufactureres like S&W and even LWRC use a nitriding process on ALL of their barrels. Stop debating about it and just accept that its not the 1970s or even 80s anymore and companies have developed ways of not only making barrels just as hard if not harder, last longer, and have natural lubricity built into them.

    Dont believe me....just take your hand and run it over the end of a barrel of a higher end weapon like an Aramlite and then run it over a Smith and Wesson that has been melonite coated. Then come back and tell me that they feel the same. not arguing....but I would hope people would want companies to ffind better and cheaper ways to make better, harder and more accurate barrels that are easier to clean.

    My rant is over.
    =================================

    Huuhhh???
    Lot of confusion in your rant.
    I question what a lot of AR makers do, especially LWRC.
    So, "work just fine" is now a scientific conclusion? So, why change from chrome since it has been scientifically proven...?
    And...Armalite (I assume) is now a high-end gun?
    How does how it "feels" to my hand make it better or worse....?

    But maybe it's just me...

    .

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ermac View Post
    I thought it was the other way around that Nitrating processes was what caused enviormental concern, not chrome lining. I believe LWRC uses nitrated barrels.




    His claims don't appear to be true.

    "The salts used are highly toxic - Disposal of salts are controlled by stringent environmental laws in western countries and has increased the costs involved in using salt baths. This is one of the most significant reasons the process has fallen out of favor in recent decades."
    No, the Chromium plating process produces Hazardous Waste that must be specially disposed of.

    Modern Nitriding processes generate little to no Hazmat. I think you are referring to the Eurpoean method using Cyanide Salts.

    The plater is charged a fee by the drum to dispose of it by a company liscensed to recieve and dispose of Hazardous Waste. I think sometimes the manufacturer will take it back for a fee and re-process it into new solution.

    In the olden days he let it go down the drain to the sewage treatment plant but the plants no longe accept untreated wastestreams due to contamination of their Biosolids.

    They can only land-apply if the solids meet or are under a threshold value, otherwise, the sludge is considered Hazwaste and it would be a disposal nightmare from a cost perspective.

    Trust me, I know this.
    Last edited by Heavy Metal; 02-26-12 at 23:49.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ View Post
    Hexavalent Chromium, which is the version generally used for chrome plating, is on the list of verboten materials according to the RoHS initiative foisted upon us by the EU and then accepted by the EPA and various asinine administrations. On that count LAV is correct. Sadly, chrome plating as we know it is gong the way of the dodo bird.
    It can still be done but if Nitriding has evolved to the point where it works as well or better, it would be crazy to continue Chrome Plating unless an application absolutely demanded it for some niche reason.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robb Jensen View Post
    Some melonited barrels will shoot really well and some don't. If a melonited barrel doesn't shoot well nothing is going to make it shoot well. Good consistent hammer forged chrome lined barrels like FN pretty much ALL shoot very well. Stainless BCM SS410 barrels always shoot well but not as long as heavy chromed hammer forged barrels. Just my dos centavos. This is why I want to be sure my SS410 is shooting very well and THEN meloniting it....
    Whats the old saying Robb? You can't polish a turd!

    If the barrel is inaccurate to begin with, all meloniting will do is ensure it has a very long inaccurate lifespan.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

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