What is the 180 gr..40 S&W doing that the 147 gr. 9mm isn't?

[KCabbage]

Greetings,

I've read how the 180 grain .40 S&W loads outperform the 9mm when it comes to barriers but what exactly is it doing that the 147 grain 9mm doesn't? Specifically doors, walls, glass, automobiles and multiple bones? When I say multiple bones I mean hand/arm to ribs or ribs to spine or even all the above.

Thanks for your time and wisdom

[DocGKR]

While obviously load dependent, as you stated, in general the .40 180 loads tend to do a bit better through intermediate barriers, with more consistent penetration, reduced trajectory deflection, less core jacket separation, larger expanded diameter, better weight retention, etc...

For those folks who are consistently working around vehicles .40 may offer an advantage; for the majority of folks whose primary threats are not around vehicles, the greater "shootability" of the 9 mm may prove compelling.

[Jake'sDad]

While obviously load dependent, as you stated, in general the .40 180 loads tend to do a bit better through intermediate barriers, with more consistent penetration, reduced trajectory deflection, less core jacket separation, larger expanded diameter, better weight retention, etc...

For those folks who are consistently working around vehicles .40 may offer an advantage; for the majority of folks whose primary threats are not around vehicles, the greater "shootability" of the 9 mm may prove compelling.

That is likely the impetus behind the agencies switching back to 9 from .40. Seems to be a growing trend.

If I went back to pushing a beat car, my decision would be between .45 ACP and 9mm, given the choice.

[NWPilgrim]

Excellent bullet construction has made the 9mm much better than when all we had were FMJ and first gen HP that either didn't expand or broke up to easily. The better the bullet is designed and constructed the less difference it seems in the performance. But diameter and weight have to play some role no matter the construction. 180 gr moving at 950 fps is still more energy and momentum than 147 gr moving at 950 fps. Not as significant a factor as whether the HP expands or not, or whether it holds together, but still somewhat of a factor.

[Microalign]

That is likely the impetus behind the agencies switching back to 9 from .40. Seems to be a growing trend.

If I went back to pushing a beat car, my decision would be between .45 ACP and 9mm, given the choice.

Must be different where you are. Even as a game warden I live and breath around suspect vehicles. Virtually every agency in my state use .40, with a few odd balls that use something else. Even the local Federal rangers are decommissioning the 9mm in favor of only .40 and .45.

[Jake'sDad]

Must be different where you are. Even as a game warden I live and breath around suspect vehicles. Virtually every agency in my state use .40, with a few odd balls that use something else. Even the local Federal rangers are decommissioning the 9mm in favor of only .40 and .45.

The 9mm to .40 switch happened out here some time ago, though a number went to .45, at least as an optional weapon. Some did decide to stay with 9 though. Don't be surprised when you hear about more agencies going back to 9. It may be a small trend, but it's happening.

Good 9mm's don't give up that much to .40, even in barriers. Guys act like .40 is magic or something. Neither one is a perfect car opener if you're depending on that.

I worked around vehicles most of my career, and I'd take the shootability and capacity of a 9 over .40, though I might choose .45, if given the option.

[DocGKR]

Assuming good ammunition selection, pretty much all the service calibers work acceptably well for duty use.

This day and age I'd worry more about getting a good ergonomic handgun that is reliable and durable than fretting over caliber...

I would be happy carrying any common service caliber if provided unlimited free ammunition for training. If purchasing my own ammo, 9 mm is most cost effective.

[Swatdude1]

I carry the HST 230gr +P .45's in my Glocks. Data from Federal would seem to indicate the HST .40 180gr is almost the .45's equal and the HST 9mm 147gr isn't far behind. I carry the HST 147gr +P in my pocket gun, a Kahr PM9.

Data here...

http://le.atk.com/pdf/HSTInsertPoster.pdf

[B Cart]

Don't be surprised when you hear about more agencies going back to 9. It may be a small trend, but it's happening.

Is the #1 draw of the agencies going back to 9mm over .40 mainly the shootability? I've carried a .40 for the last 5 years, but have been considering switching to 9mm because of ammo cost.

Cost aside, is the .40 really that much harder to shoot well than the 9mm? I would think that most agencies do enough work around vehicles that the .40 would be the preferred round for the better barrier performance. Is the shootability the main reason, or are there other reasons why some are going back to 9mm?

Thanks!

[Microalign]

The 9mm to .40 switch happened out here some time ago, though a number went to .45, at least as an optional weapon. Some did decide to stay with 9 though. Don't be surprised when you hear about more agencies going back to 9. It may be a small trend, but it's happening.

Good 9mm's don't give up that much to .40, even in barriers. Guys act like .40 is magic or something. Neither one is a perfect car opener if you're depending on that.

I worked around vehicles most of my career, and I'd take the shootability and capacity of a 9 over .40, though I might choose .45, if given the option.

To each his own. The platform often dictates the shootability of the caliber. We only use Sigs, and the first 5 years of my career I used nothing but 9mm. For the last 5 years I have been using .40S&W and my speed and accuracy are superior to anything I could do previously. I'd say I go through more ammo now though, since I reload. Better training makes better shooters regardless of caliber.

I'll tell you what though, caliber discussion is as sensitive of a subject as talking religion or politics.