Build in progress - optics advice?

[L91]

While I wait for the parts for my build to show up I thought I'd get people's thoughts on optics. First, this is what I'm building:

- 16" ADCOR B.E.A.R. Elite Piston Upper (FN cold forged 1x7 barrel, Magpul BUIS)
- Spikes Tactical Lower
- ERGO F93 8 position stock
- Geiselle SSA Enhanced trigger (2-stage combat)
- Magpul enhanced trigger guard and rubber overmolded grip

This setup is intended to be extremely durable, accurate and relatively light. I will probably compete with it in 3-gun or something along those lines and will definitely put it through its paces on the range. Neither I, nor this rifle, will operate in the "real world" but this is a serious gun and I don't want its performance limited by subpar optics. I'm also not interested in wasting money on brand name premiums or stuff that is over-engineered for what I use it for.

1. Has anyone had good experience with some affordable micro red dots? Anything from FM Optics to Barska at the low end to Vortex in the mid range... Is it really worth it to pay $500 for an Aimpoint?

2. Same question for holographic sights. Is there something decent out there short of the Eotechs and Trijicons or do you have to drop that sort of cash?

3. What about 4 power scopes? I've read a few good things about the Millett 1-4x24mm DMS. I'd like some more opinions on it or other optics in this class.

[Bobert0989]

My first Aimpoint was a CompM2, which can be had now for around $400 with a mount used...

You can sometimes find great deals on these things in our own EE here... It all depends on what you really want, and what you're willing to spend. I sold that same CompM2 last year, with an ADM mount for $425 SHIPPED on GunBroker.

My limited experience with cheaper sights, Aimpoint knock-off from eBay to be specific, held zero for a total of about 20 rounds, then drifted more and more from there. Please don't buy one because they look cool... it's a waste of money, unless you are putting it on a M&P15-22 or something...

I ran across some older EOTech 512's in good used condition for $300/ea at a shop last year, those are excellent optics for the money, IMO. Granted, they use AA batteries, but if you don't plan to use the gun EVERYDAY, you should never run into problems with them. Just keep a set in your range bag in case of emergency...

I switched to Aimpoints, mainly so I wouldn't need to worry about battery life (although I found my preferences leaned more towards the EOTech's reticle pattern). As little as I actually get to shoot anymore, I never even considered having to change them out!

It's all about what you want to have, and what you are willing to pay. You say your rifle is to be rugged and well-built... I'd put a well-built optic on top!

Just my $0.02...

~Bobby

[J_Dub_503]

I've never done competitive shooting so take this with a grain if salt. I've heard that you want a scope that goes below 2x on the low end so you can shoot with Both eyes open. Also, it seems that a set of offset iron sights is the common companion to said scope.

[ack495]

While I wait for the parts for my build to show up I thought I'd get people's thoughts on optics. First, this is what I'm building:

- 16" ADCOR B.E.A.R. Elite Piston Upper (FN cold forged 1x7 barrel, Magpul BUIS)
- Spikes Tactical Lower
- ERGO F93 8 position stock
- Geiselle SSA Enhanced trigger (2-stage combat)
- Magpul enhanced trigger guard and rubber overmolded grip

This setup is intended to be extremely durable, accurate and relatively light. I will probably compete with it in 3-gun or something along those lines and will definitely put it through its paces on the range. Neither I, nor this rifle, will operate in the "real world" but this is a serious gun and I don't want its performance limited by subpar optics. I'm also not interested in wasting money on brand name premiums or stuff that is over-engineered for what I use it for.

1. Has anyone had good experience with some affordable micro red dots? Anything from FM Optics to Barska at the low end to Vortex in the mid range... Is it really worth it to pay $500 for an Aimpoint?

2. Same question for holographic sights. Is there something decent out there short of the Eotechs and Trijicons or do you have to drop that sort of cash?

3. What about 4 power scopes? I've read a few good things about the Millett 1-4x24mm DMS. I'd like some more opinions on it or other optics in this class.

I found a used Aimpoint ML2 in excellent condition on an EE for $280. Bought a QRP2 mount off someone else for $45. Perfect set up in my opinion for what you need. Its built like a tank to withstand anything you'll probably throw at it. The bigger tube was better for me than the micro's, so I sold my H1 off. But still light enough to not weigh the rifle down like an ACOG I used to own. Great optics for running and gunning matches. And if you need magnification for further shots you can always add a magnifer.

These Aimpoint ML/M offer the best bang for your buck. People are looking to buy the new micro's and M4's for the size and better battery life so they look to unload their "older" Aimpoints cheap to help pay for the new ones. Deals for the rest of us. These deals are out there, you just have to keep on them.

[rob_s]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I think you need to use the search feature of the forum. Also your list of parts has nothing to do with your question.

Around here, for red-dot sights you're going to find the base threshold of price at about $450. For low-power variable optics you're looking more at $1500. In either case, you need to go visit and observe some of the matches you think you're going to participate in and see what the other shooters are using. Compare the top shooters' gear to the bottom-feeders'. If the club you want to shoot with is shooting out to 200 and beyond, you're going to need to pony up for the variable.

I'm currently using a Leupold VX-R Patrol which is a ~$600 low-power variable, but everyone here that's a fan of the low-powered variable tells me that all the reservations I have about this style optic is because I am using a "cheap" one (without, near as I can tell, having touched a VX-R). Personally, I am unwilling to spend the kind of money that is apparently required to get a "good one".

[Failure2Stop]

For real use, a $500 Aimpoint is more valuable than a $1,200 piston upper, $180 trigger, and $150 stock.
The application of a AR is defined more by the optic than by any other single attribute, barrel length included.
Frankly, you put the cart before the horse.

Also, if you intend on competing, different optics will put you in different divisions (3-gun). Red-Dots do not directly compete against traditional glass in most competitions. Competitors have their own list of features that they demand for their application, and their application does not always apply to those with more serious intent.

The Millet DMS is a toy. I tried one out several years ago as a proof of concept when getting into the 1-4x game, and it was good enough to show me that the concept would be sound with a purpose-built optic. If you want to get into the low powered variable game, expect to pay around $1000 for a decent optic out of the box.

If $ is a significant concern, take advantage of the EE here or the Sample List over at SWFA. In the optics arena, there ain't no such thing as "good as".

[rob_s]

For real use, a $500 Aimpoint is more valuable than a $1,200 piston upper, $180 trigger, and $150 stock.
The application of a AR is defined more by the optic than by any other single attribute, barrel length included.
Frankly, you put the cart before the horse.

EXCELLENT point. I had no idea the cost of all the parts that were listed.

[ASH556]

Hell, here's a top of the line T1 w/DD mount for $475 (I have no affiliation with the seller) https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=100291

As to whether the quality optics are worth it, there's a sticky on that very topic at the top of this forum.

+1 to what the others said about putting the cart before the horse. If folks would actually get out and shoot their guns instead stroking them in the bedroom and playing on the internet, they'd find out pretty quickly what works, what doesn't and why.

A side-charged, piston upper for an AR? For $1200???? My god, I could buy a complete Colt/BCM/DD rifle and a case of ammo for that.

I'm starting to think a lot more like Rob these days.

[L91]

I'm grateful for the advice. I should clarify that the whole point of starting this thread was not to suggest I wanted to put inferior optics on this gun, but to get people's opinions as to whether there is anything short of the big name brands that are superior. So far I'm not hearing that there is.

I've had plenty of experience with good optics and bad, and own both. I just have never owned a micro red dot, decent holo sight or a low power variable like the Millett I threw out there. Anyone have experience with the Vortex stuff?

[lethal dose]

As f2s said, you are putting the cart before the horse. Personally, I would sell the upper and grab something nice from Grant (complete colt upper $550). Take the remaining cash and invest in a decent piece of glass. An aimpoint pro can be had NEW for $400. For 1-4x, a trijicon tr24 runs about $900 new in a mount. Those are both completely viable options. Honestly, if durability is at the top of your list, I would reconsider the upper you're running.