Availability of Better Performing 5.56 Self Defense Loads

[BufordTJustice]

Thanks friend, but you may have opened a can of worms, lol. If you dont mind, could you answer a couple ammo related questions I have? I would appreciate it if Rob could chime in also.
My questions are about HD ammo for SBR's.
1. I know that shorter barrels create lower velocities, so whats the magic number I should look for? Most manufacturer listed velocities are measured using 16" barrels, but mine is 11.5", so how could I find it out for my weapon?
2. Should I use heavy rounds, or light? Would my sbr perform best with a 55gr round like TAP, or a 75gr TAP loading?
3. I know that placement is priority, but having the best ammo for your weapon cant hurt anything. Would a HP, SP, balistic tip, etc..... Be the best target stopper? I will shoot till my targets no longer a threat, but the right ammo might make that happen faster.

If this is too much to ask, no problem.
Thanks and God bless,
Brandon

I'll quote Dr. Roberts.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

"Short barreled 5.56 mm weapons, such as the Colt Commando, Mk18 CQBR, HK416, HK53, HK G36C, etc… offer advantages in confined spaces. With SBR’s it is best to stick with the barrier blind loads recommended above, although the heavy OTM's suggested for long distance shooting will also work. SBR's can run into rotational velocity issues with some loads, so it is generally best to select faster 1/7 twist barrels whenever possible. Remember, with SBR’s, effective engagement distances are significantly reduced compared to the longer barreled carbines.

Keep in mind, that with non-fragmenting bullet designs, heavier bullet weights are not necessarily better, especially at closer ranges and from shorter barrels. As long as penetration and upset remain adequate, it is possible to use lighter weight non-fragmenting bullets and still have outstanding terminal performance. With fragmenting designs, a heavier bullet is ideal, as it provides more potential fragments and still allows the central core to have enough mass for adequate penetration. In addition, heavier bullets may have an advantage at longer ranges due to better BC and less wind drift."

If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me, I don't wanna thread drift any more than we already have.

[Jake'sDad]

i own both 5.56 75gr t1c from bvac AND hsm. they are not one in the same. that crono data posted on ar15.com is true HSM not BVAC. the bvac consistently cronos almost 200 fps slower than the hsm. they are not the same company with a different name. bvac is a couple guys from hsm that had some kind of falling out and left hsm to start their own ammo company....

Take it up with Molon.

Why should he "take it up with Molon"?

You are the one that posted in this thread:

The results are under 'HSM 5.56 ammo'. They changed their name to BVAC.

That is factually and unequivocally incorrect.

BVAC was started by a former employee of HSM, (who now no longer owns it). They are two separate companies and always have been.

If you want to flog BVAC ammo, don't do it by pointing to HSM testing data.

[BufordTJustice]

Why should he "take it up with Molon"?

You are the one that posted in this thread:



That is factually and unequivocally incorrect.

BVAC was started by a former employee of HSM, (who now no longer owns it). They are two separate companies and always have been.

If you want to flog BVAC ammo, don't do it by pointing to HSM testing data.

You're right. Darren Newsome was the manager at HSM for nearly 20 years. In 2008 he started BVAC as a separate business entity. In 2011 he sold the assets to an LLC named Pro Grade Ammo Group and remained on staff as a manager and consultant. I stand corrected.

I'm not backing down from the claim that the BVAC 75gr 5.5617T load is hotter than SAAMI pressure. It may not be the equal of Horandy TAP 5.56 (full NATO loading), but ti is hotter than .223 and not safe to shoot in a .223 chamber. I don't own a chronograph, but apparently kenndap does. I'll wait for additional chrono data to comment additionally on the exact velocity of the BVAC 75gr load.

I have shot that BVAC load back to back with BH blue box .223 75gr and hornady TAP FPD 75gr. It felt noticeably hotter than both of those loads (and was also less accurate). The difference was obvious in muzzle report, gun movement, and blast to the shooter (I use a comp). I mixed the BVAC and Federal XM193 in the same mag and was unable to discern a difference based on anything other than POI; they felt identical when shooting offhand. Whereas M193 feels noticeable hotter than any of the above listed .223 loads.

Further, I shot it in a squadmate's 16" bushmaster which I know to have a .223 chamber (used a set of guages to confirm). He consistently had failures to extract, flattened primers, and several (4) popped primers with the BVAC load and NONE of those issues with the two above listed SAAMI pressure loads. These are the same types of issues he used to have when he ran Federal XM193 (before I dropped some gauges into his chamber). Using .223 pressure ammo, his gun runs fine and primers look normal.

I am also NOT saying it's the equal of Hornady/Nosler/Asym/Federal/Winchester in terms of ammunition quality. This is a thread about affordable (and available) defensive ammo. The BVAC 75gr load meets all of these criteria.

Matter of fact, I actually found a box of the BVAC 75gr 5.56-17T load lying around my house. It's free to anybody who wants to chronograph it...just send me a shipping label. I'm not guaranteeing its performance...but I am not just flapping my gums either. The offer is serious. PM me if you're interested. Only condition is that a separate thread is started and photos are posted of the results. Shipment will be from Orlando, FL (32829).

EDIT: Molon tested the BVAC 75gr round preliminarily with lackluster accuracy results.
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=16&t=504025

[rob_s]

Just so everyone is clear, I'm reporting all of the posts that aren't directly related to the topic at hand which is providing links to purchase the various ammo types that Doc Roberts has recommended in other threads.

The rest of this discussion may be interesting or useful to some of you but it should be "taken up" elsewhere.

I'm going to recommend that they be split off into a new thread, not just deleted outright.

[Grim Fandango]

Federal Fusion 62 gr. JSP

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produc...n-62gr-sp-ammo

As a side note, I'm beginning to wonder if this round has been discontinued. I haven't been able to find it at any of my local sporting goods stores where it was previously available: Academy, Bass Pro Shops, and Gander Mountain. The other caliber still seem to be available, but I can't find the .223 loading anymore.

[tpd223]

Federal Fusion 62 gr. JSP

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produc...n-62gr-sp-ammo

As a side note, I'm beginning to wonder if this round has been discontinued. I haven't been able to find it at any of my local sporting goods stores where it was previously available: Academy, Bass Pro Shops, and Gander Mountain. The other caliber still seem to be available, but I can't find the .223 loading anymore.

Still listed here;

http://www.fusionammo.com/products/rifle.aspx

[Icculus]

Good thread Rob. Since sometimes ammo resellers struggle to accurately label their products I also think its a big help that you include the mfg part # when possible. If we could try to fill in the ones that are missing it would be great; it just helps cut down on confusion.

As for the Federal Fusion 62gr jsp it looks like it's also available at Palmetto state armory
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...box-of-20.html
That is assuming the F223FS1 is the load that Doc was referencing and their isn't a 5.56 version of this same ammo floating out there somewhere.

[Jake'sDad]

Good thread Rob. Since sometimes ammo resellers struggle to accurately label their products I also think its a big help that you include the mfg part # when possible. If we could try to fill in the ones that are missing it would be great; it just helps cut down on confusion.

As for the Federal Fusion 62gr jsp it looks like it's also available at Palmetto state armory
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...box-of-20.html
That is assuming the F223FS1 is the load that Doc was referencing and their isn't a 5.56 version of this same ammo floating out there somewhere.

Afaik, there hasn't been a 5.56 version of Fusion, since they aim that line at the sporting/hunting market. They've only loaded the Gold Dot version in 5.56. I believe the Gold Dot has crimped primers like the Federal TRU loads, not sure about the Fusion.

[El Cid]

70gr TSX:
Southwest Ammo
http://www.southwestammunition.com/p...p/55670tsx.htm

Asym Ammo (Stan Chen)
http://store.chencustom.com/223_SOLI...r_TSX_s/92.htm

77gr SMK:
Southwest Ammo
"Run and gun" (military pull down brass)
http://www.southwestammunition.com/p...677smk-rng.htm

New
http://www.southwestammunition.com/p...7smk-match.htm

Asym Ammo (Stan Chen)
http://store.chencustom.com/223_Rem_...l_OTM_s/40.htm

[Mike from Texas]

70gr TSX:
Southwest Ammo
http://www.southwestammunition.com/p...p/55670tsx.htm

Asym Ammo (Stan Chen)
http://store.chencustom.com/223_SOLI...r_TSX_s/92.htm

77gr SMK:
Southwest Ammo
"Run and gun" (military pull down brass)
http://www.southwestammunition.com/p...677smk-rng.htm

New
http://www.southwestammunition.com/p...7smk-match.htm

Asym Ammo (Stan Chen)
http://store.chencustom.com/223_Rem_...l_OTM_s/40.htm

Wouldn't the 70 grain TSX grossly over penetrate? I use this round for hunting and I ALWAYS get complete pass through even on large hogs.


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