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Thread: Availability of Better Performing 5.56 Self Defense Loads

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mag360 View Post
    Is that because the 77 over penetrates or the 50 creates a better wound channel?
    Good question. I'm curious to know as well.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mag360 View Post
    Is that because the 77 over penetrates or the 50 creates a better wound channel?
    Not to speak for Doc but just from reading a zillion other posts, I believe that he favors the 50 TSX for CONUS/LE/SD because it is more barrier blind.

    The 50 grainer seems to be a more robust round as it will hold its petals better through barriers than the 70 grain round. The trade-off being that it needs 2300 fps to perform optimally and the 70 grain TSX needs something like 1800 fps. This limits the range of the 50 grain round compared to the 70 but that limit is still well within all but the most extreme ranges that could be found in an urban/CONUS engagement.

    Just spitting back what I've been reading as I had the same questions. I have only used the Black Hills 50 grain TSX at the range, but have been very impressed with its performance out to 200 yards. Do have to add that that "performance" has been on water bottles and not any sort of live game.

    Also, due to the cost, I've only shot a few hundred rounds of it during range/training time. I have had no hiccups of any sort though. I am confident stocking up for whatever may come and it is the round that fills my "ready to go" mags at the house.

    Would love to try a helo hog hunt to see the 50 in real action...

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocsteady View Post
    Not to speak for Doc but just from reading a zillion other posts, I believe that he favors the 50 TSX for CONUS/LE/SD because it is more barrier blind.

    The 50 grainer seems to be a more robust round as it will hold its petals better through barriers than the 70 grain round. The trade-off being that it needs 2300 fps to perform optimally and the 70 grain TSX needs something like 1800 fps. This limits the range of the 50 grain round compared to the 70 but that limit is still well within all but the most extreme ranges that could be found in an urban/CONUS engagement.

    Just spitting back what I've been reading as I had the same questions. I have only used the Black Hills 50 grain TSX at the range, but have been very impressed with its performance out to 200 yards. Do have to add that that "performance" has been on water bottles and not any sort of live game.

    Also, due to the cost, I've only shot a few hundred rounds of it during range/training time. I have had no hiccups of any sort though. I am confident stocking up for whatever may come and it is the round that fills my "ready to go" mags at the house.

    Would love to try a helo hog hunt to see the 50 in real action...
    Keep in mind that the load that you are referring to that was recommended by Doc due to all of the above that you wrote is the Black Hills load. The projectile available as a reloading component is different than the BH projectile and doesn't (AFAIK) perform "as well" through barriers.

    I have asked Doc about which load he would recommend as a reloading component, and he suggested the 55gr TSX for general purpose CONUS use and the 70gr for longer range work where wind drift might be more of an issue.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman8 View Post
    Keep in mind that the load that you are referring to that was recommended by Doc due to all of the above that you wrote is the Black Hills load. The projectile available as a reloading component is different than the BH projectile and doesn't (AFAIK) perform "as well" through barriers.

    I have asked Doc about which load he would recommend as a reloading component, and he suggested the 55gr TSX for general purpose CONUS use and the 70gr for longer range work where wind drift might be more of an issue.
    Thank you for the component info. I for one would be more interested in seeing a list similar to the Duty loads but geared towards components.

    I know reloading can be a touchy subject for some but if it were kept to components and velocities, leaving out powders and charges, it may work.
    Reloading component info is more valuable to me than a list of Duty loads that I will never be able to find, buy or afford.

    Most of us have to work with what's available. I'm not Law Enforcement so most of the offerings listed are not available to me. What components
    can Joe Nobody can buy, use and be just as effective ?

    That would be an interesting topic.

  5. #45
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    Tedfs--All of the loads listed are readily available to anybody if you search around a bit...

    "Is that because the 77 over penetrates or the 50 creates a better wound channel?"
    The 77 gr SMK is extremely accurate, but is not a barrier blind load. The Black Hills 50 gr TSX works well against intermediate barriers while and demonstrating terminal effects meeting the guidelines set for CONUS LE use. The 70 gr TSX is also a good load, but probably a bit more appropriate for longer range engagements or hunting.

  6. #46
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    First of all I'd like to apologize for injecting this side of the equation into this topic, however, I do feel it's related to the topic of the
    "Availability of Better Performing 5.56 Self Defense Loads"

    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    Tedfs--All of the loads listed are readily available to anybody if you search around a bit...

    ...
    That is true, however, one of my main concerns is being able to train with what I plan to carry.

    I did luck into a few boxes of 64 gr Gold Dots earlier this year but not nearly enough to train with and have some left over for carry.

    Since there's no Department issuing ammo for me, cost is a factor to the amount that can be purchased at one time. It's more cost
    effective (for me) to work up a load with quality components and run a thousand or two in a class/training to see how they perform
    over time out of my rifles.

    While most of the components listed in the loaded ammunition you recommend aren't available for purchase, some are and developing
    safe, quality 5.56 loads from them is possible and cheaper. Allowing the end user to train with what they carry.

    Having control over ever single aspect of making rounds, from choosing the brass to seating the bullet can produce some very
    good results. Testing of those rounds to see how the perform and if they meet the criteria listed would be an interesting discussion.

  7. #47
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    Once our zero and function is confirmed with a few hundred rounds, ALL additional training is conducted with 55 gr FMJ--generally Federal XM193 or AE223. Whether using 77 gr SMK, 75 gr TAP, 70 gr TSX, 64 gr JSP, 62 gr JSP, 55 gr JSP, or 50 gr TSX, the POA/POI with the 55 gr training ammo is more than adequate for training out to 100 yds and is reasonably OK out to 200. Beyond that, it is best to use practice ammo with the same trajectory as duty, but then again, how much carbine training (vice DMR) is conducted beyond 200 yds?

  8. #48
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    I'm inadequately qualified to answer how much carbine training is done beyond 200 yards but would have to say not much outside of those very few individuals that need to in whatever Department they may operate.

    Personally, long range performance doesn't interest me as much as close range performance and barrier penetration performance. A threat at 300 meters is no threat to me if E&E is an option. Unfortunately Law Enforcement doesn't give the luxury to pick and choose threats and distances of engagements so that audience is better served knowing performance issues at range.

    Learning some of the skill sets used in longer range shooting would benefit anyone to better understand what their bullets are doing at different distances. Yet knowing how fast to push a commercially available projectile (at closer ranges) to get performance similar to the Duty loads you recommend would benefit a larger audience of shooters that also have a valid need for quality 5.56 Self Defense loads.

    I prefer 62 gr - 64 gr projectiles for the sake of simplicity and similarity to what is currently available in the market of 5.56 x 45 loads. Those weights are easy to push past 3,000 fps with the right powders, properly prepared brass and attention to safety.

    Some pulled 64 gr bonded projectiles were available a few months ago and those are performing nicely but I'm waiting for an answer back from Nosler about the commercial availability of their 64gr BSB. Hopefully it's a positive one.

  9. #49
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    Not sure if your still updating this, but there are alot more out here.
    Seems to be alot of good loads available right now.

    SGAmmo has RA556B/ZQ3313 and 55gr Gold Dot .223

    ZQ3313
    http://www.sgammo.com/product/winche...t-point-zq3313

    RA556B
    http://www.sgammo.com/product/winche...sp-ammo-ra556b

    .223 55gr Gold Dot
    http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/...int-ammo-24446

    Ammotogo has Remington 62gr Bonded, Ranger 60gr Partition, and 62gr Fusion

    Ranger Partition
    http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produc...556-soft-point

    Reminton 62gr Bonded
    http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produc...556-soft-point

    Fusion
    http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produc...oducts_id/4887
    Last edited by saddlerocker; 09-04-12 at 21:44.

  10. #50
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    Is there updates to this list?

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