45 Super 185gr. JHP, did I make a mistake?

[TMS951]

I recently purchased 200rounds of Buffalo Bore .45 Super to use as defensive ammo in my HK Mark 23.

All they had available for JHP now was 185gr. bullets. The Ammo is 1300fps, with 688ft.lbs. from a 5" barrel, I am hoping for even a little more out of my 5.87" barrel.


But here is my concern. In the approved carry ammo thread all the recommended ammo is 230gr. with the exception of the Barnes XTP bullet.

Where does the 185gr. loadings fall short? At this point I feel like I should have waited for 230gr. to be back in stock.

I did try to research before and all could find was "its a 45, it is going to be devastating no matter what bullet is used". The numbers looked good for the 185gr., but what is the reality? What do the 185gr. bullets lack?

[Fail-Safe]

They lack the necesary penetration and expansion.

Why not just stick with .45acp? What do you believe you will gain with the Super?

[TMS951]

I felt as though the added velocity would help terminal ballistics.

My Mark 23 is fairly new to me. I am going to use it as a night stand gun and wanted to effective SD ammo for it. Reading about 45 super it seemed cool and my Mark 23 could shoot it stock.

I guess I bought it almost as a novelty over buying a +p .45acp.

[200RNL]

I did try to research before and all could find was "its a 45, it is going to be devastating no matter what bullet is used".

I am not referring to you TMS951 but I am amazed that so many, otherwise intelligent people, accept a statement like that as gospel.

[TMS951]

Yes it is frustrating, it just left me with out any great data.

Another interesting thing I found was in my Mark 23s hand book. It said the gun was designed for 230gr. 1911 ball, and 185gr. +p jhp. It said those were the only two they were guaranteed to function with. I found it interests they singled out the 185gr. +p jhp. There was no reasoning

[SteadyUp]

Just to avoid any confusion, 45 Super ammo is the same dimensionally as 45 ACP, but they cannot be used interchangeably. Trying to shoot 45 Super in a weapon designed for 45 ACP could be very, very bad. The Super runs at much higher pressure.

[DocGKR]

"There was no reasoning."

Actually there was great reasoning--the military customer whose requirements that pistol was designed for issued a 230 gr FMJ load and a 185 gr +P load during the time period the pistol was developed--thus those were the two loads the HK engineers built the pistol to run with.

[TMS951]

DocGKR,

I guess I should have been more clear. I am not implying there was no reason in general, but that it was not in the manual.

I guessed it was something like that. What puzzled me about this was that it had been my impression the gun was built for a SOCOM contract/competition. But that the .mil can not use jhp because of the geneva convention?

With that said, why did the end user think 185gr. +p was a better load than say a 230gr. +p jhp?

Lastly with .45 super vs. 45acp. do you feel any differently about bullet weight?

Thank you.

[DocGKR]

The Geneva convention says NOTHING about JHP use. Try the Hague Convention: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19937.

When the pistol was designed, there were no 230 gr +P loads.

What is the point of .45 Super in a service pistol?

[C-grunt]

The 185 grain 45 lacks weight. The extra weight of the 230 grain is going to give you better penetration.

The 185 grain bullet was all the rage back in the day when hollow points were still a new and unreliable design. Many people believed, and they could be right, that you needed a certain amount of velocity to get reliable expansion. But newer designed bullets will expand at normal 230 grain velocities of around 850 FPS.