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Thread: Pistons and violent early extraction...

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridgerunner665 View Post
    Agreed...

    It has to be faster...because the work starts sooner...the piston system doesn't have to wait for the gas to get to the carrier/bolt.

    So now we're back to the unlocking thing...where you were when I got here, LOL. Before I can comment on the unlocking timing I'm gonna have to find out exactly how it works in the DI system...I'm not sure which side of the rings the gas enters the carrier on...nor have I ever given any thought to the actions the bolt goes through during firing.

    Got some studying to do...but its bed time for now...gotta roll a long way tomorrow, delivering to Ft. Stewart...and I'm in Indiana.
    The AR does not use a DI system, though that name has just stuck.

    It is an inline piston, the gas that pushes the bullet down to bore is siphoned off and sent down the gas tube, which travels into the carrier key. From the carrier key it travels down into the expansion chamber that is formed by the carrier and bolt tail(behind the gas rings).

    When the gas expands it pushes against the bolt tail which has formed a air tight seal thanks to the gas rings, since the bolt cannot move the carrier is instead sent backwards, as the carrier moves rearward the cam pin is engaged and unlocks the bolt.

    Once the bolt is fully unlocked the gas inside the expansion chamber is exhausted out of the 2 holes in the side of the carrier and the BCG travels rearward, ejects the brass, and chambers a new round.

    If you do not know a DI system is similar in that is has a gas tube, but in a DI system the gas that travels down the gas tube is sent into a small shallow cup in the front of the carrier, when the gas strikes this cup the force is what cycles the action leaving all the gas to be expelled into the action/air.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 08-07-13 at 02:13.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    If you do not know a DI system is similar in that is has a gas tube, but in a DI system the gas that travels down the gas tube is sent into a small shallow cup in the front of the carrier, when the gas strikes this cup the force is what cycles the action leaving all the gas to be expelled into the action/air.
    Just like in the French MAS49.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    The AR does not use a DI system, though that name has just stuck.

    It is an inline piston, the gas that pushes the bullet down to bore is siphoned off and sent down the gas tube, which travels into the carrier key. From the carrier key it travels down into the expansion chamber that is formed by the carrier and bolt tail(behind the gas rings).

    When the gas expands it pushes against the bolt tail which has formed a air tight seal thanks to the gas rings, since the bolt cannot move the carrier is instead sent backwards, as the carrier moves rearward the cam pin is engaged and unlocks the bolt.

    Once the bolt is fully unlocked the gas inside the expansion chamber is exhausted out of the 2 holes in the side of the carrier and the BCG travels rearward, ejects the brass, and chambers a new round.

    If you do not know a DI system is similar in that is has a gas tube, but in a DI system the gas that travels down the gas tube is sent into a small shallow cup in the front of the carrier, when the gas strikes this cup the force is what cycles the action leaving all the gas to be expelled into the action/air.
    Yeah...I remember that from reading through this thread earlier...but to get a grasp on it I think I'm gonna have to have a BCG in my hands...I've tried just running through in my head but the part where the bolt and the carrier start moving as individuals gets hard to follow without visual aids, LOL.

    I'll be home Friday...I have visual aids there.
    Last edited by Ridgerunner665; 08-07-13 at 02:21.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridgerunner665 View Post
    Yeah...I remember that from reading through this thread earlier...but to get a grasp on it I think I'm gonna have to have a BCG in my hands...I've tried just running through in my head but the part where the bolt and the carrier start moving as individuals gets hard to follow without visual aids, LOL.

    I'll be home Friday...I have visual aids there.
    The bolt does not move aside from rotating. The only part that moves is the carrier, which as it travels rearward the cam pin engages its tract and this movement of the cam pin is what rotates the bolt unlocking it.

    Other than that rotation the bolt stays stationary.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridgerunner665 View Post
    Ever use an air nozzle with compressed air? How about a pressure washer? Same physics either way...
    Yes, I have- plenty of times. Bernoulli's Principle tells us that running a flow through a restriction will result in a drop in pressure and rise in velocity, so long as we're dealing with subsonic velocities. But the expanding gas inside a rifle is supersonic- and that changes the rules. When supersonic gas flows through a restriction (like the gas port) the velocity drops to the speed of sound. What the speed of sound is under these conditions, I haven't found out yet.

    But we do know that the projectile leaves the muzzle before the gases can overcome the inertia of the reciprocating mass. You can see it for yourself when studying slow motion videos of gas operated firearms being fired

    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    The bolt does not move aside from rotating. The only part that moves is the carrier, which as it travels rearward the cam pin engages its tract and this movement of the cam pin is what rotates the bolt unlocking it.

    Other than that rotation the bolt stays stationary.
    You might want to think it through a little further before making that assertion
    Last edited by MistWolf; 08-07-13 at 03:39.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
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  6. #56
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    My Adams Arms piston system has no carrier tilt. The carrier is all one piece and has no signs of wear. Pistons are superior to DI in every way. Pistons operate combustion engines ... lol since the Model T and earlier in Germany. The piston concept is the best method of harvesting energy into mechanical movement.

    Arguing against pistons is like trying to reinvent the combustion engine.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by maw1777 View Post
    My Adams Arms piston system has no carrier tilt. The carrier is all one piece and has no signs of wear. Pistons are superior to DI in every way. Pistons operate combustion engines ... lol since the Model T and earlier in Germany. The piston concept is the best method of harvesting energy into mechanical movement.

    Arguing against pistons is like trying to reinvent the combustion engine.

    Its a good thing stoner was a genious and developed a proprietary inline piston system.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  8. #58
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    Re: Pistons and violent early extraction...

    You are now entering...the twilight zone.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by maw1777 View Post
    My Adams Arms piston system has no carrier tilt. The carrier is all one piece and has no signs of wear. Pistons are superior to DI in every way. Pistons operate combustion engines ... lol since the Model T and earlier in Germany. The piston concept is the best method of harvesting energy into mechanical movement.

    Arguing against pistons is like trying to reinvent the combustion engine.
    First, the AR already has a piston. If you'd sit down and apply critical thinking to figuring out how it works using the laws of physics instead of simply repeating internet memes, you'd understand that.

    Second, it's turbine engines that power large aircraft around the globe and rocket engines that power our space program.

    Third, just because it's rocket science, doesn't mean it's complicated. Launching a bullet using gunpowder uses the same principles
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by maw1777 View Post
    My Adams Arms piston system has no carrier tilt. The carrier is all one piece and has no signs of wear. Pistons are superior to DI in every way. Pistons operate combustion engines ... lol since the Model T and earlier in Germany. The piston concept is the best method of harvesting energy into mechanical movement.

    Arguing against pistons is like trying to reinvent the combustion engine.
    Carrier tilt? This thread isn't even about that. Did you read the thread title, or any of the preceding posts? This discussion is about bolt unlocking.

    A big endorsement for pistons from the guy who a few weeks ago couldn't figure out why his piston gun wasn't working.

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