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Thread: Pistons and violent early extraction...

  1. #61
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    Even with DI I love the AR system. I'm still curious if anything can replace it or how long it will take. Small arms will be what in 200 years?

  2. #62
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    Re: Pistons and violent early extraction...

    Quote Originally Posted by maw1777 View Post
    My Adams Arms piston system has no carrier tilt. The carrier is all one piece and has no signs of wear. Pistons are superior to DI in every way. Pistons operate combustion engines ... lol since the Model T and earlier in Germany. The piston concept is the best method of harvesting energy into mechanical movement.

    Arguing against pistons is like trying to reinvent the combustion engine.
    Weren't you told by multiple mods here recently to read more & post less?

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    Stop dicking the dog, please. It's gross.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by maw1777 View Post
    Even with DI I love the AR system. I'm still curious if anything can replace it or how long it will take. Small arms will be what in 200 years?
    Caseless/CTA unless we develop mini rail guns, then laser rifles.

    Though this is incredibly off topic. This also was not a Inline vs op rod operating system discussion, but a discussion about force difference when the bolt unlocks.
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    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by maw1777 View Post
    My Adams Arms piston system has no carrier tilt. The carrier is all one piece and has no signs of wear. Pistons are superior to DI in every way. Pistons operate combustion engines ... lol since the Model T and earlier in Germany. The piston concept is the best method of harvesting energy into mechanical movement.

    Arguing against pistons is like trying to reinvent the combustion engine.
    The recip IC engine is a terribly inefficient device. That is why the turboprop and turbofan replaced the recip in aviation.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by maw1777 View Post
    My Adams Arms piston system has no carrier tilt. The carrier is all one piece and has no signs of wear. Pistons are superior to DI in every way. Pistons operate combustion engines ... lol since the Model T and earlier in Germany. The piston concept is the best method of harvesting energy into mechanical movement.

    Arguing against pistons is like trying to reinvent the combustion engine.
    The "DI" AR is a piston gun. Always has been. Ever look at the bolt tail?

  6. #66
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    Ceaseless ammunition failed already, just ask HK. I think ceaseless is a waste. Rail guns seem likely.

    The OP asked about force and wear, I'm just pointing out a piston and machine parts can handle the force because we see the designs on a greater scale.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by maw1777 View Post
    Ceaseless ammunition failed already...I think ceaseless is a waste...
    I don't care if it's a waste or not, I'd love to have ceaseless ammunition! I'd never make to work and it'd be amazingly hard on the barrels, but I'd be happier than a tornado in an Occupy Camp!
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by maw1777 View Post
    I'm just pointing out a piston and machine parts can handle the force because we see the designs on a greater scale.
    That's absolutely not what you're doing, when you swipe with drek like "superior system" using a brush as broad as the one you selected. We've enough existing piston vs. DI argument threads where that assertion is objectively dispelled, starting with the monetary aspect in regard to the user that's buying his own crap...just for starters.

    And, I don't care if it's caseless OR ceaseless, the non-productive derail ends right here. Pretty please, with sugar.

    However awesome the latter would undoubtedly be....
    Contractor scum, AAV

  9. #69
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    OK...I've been sitting around working the BCG back and forth trying to get my brain wrapped around the firing process.

    After much deep thought...I think how "violent or early" the extraction is depends entirely on the timing of the cam pin in the groove in the upper and the length and angle of the cam pin slot in the carrier. I believe its the cam pin itself that is absorbing the most punishment...not the bolt lugs...the cam pin is taking a pretty hard lick when it hits the front of the slot in the carrier...but this should be the same for a DI setup so I don't think its anything new.

    If the angle and length of the slot in the carrier and the track in the upper are correct everything lets go when it should . The lugs on my bolt do show very minor wear (just to the finish, and its has barely worn that), but all of them are the same...meaning, they are even and well mated to the extension when locked in. The timing of my Sig 516 is such that the carrier moves appx. 1/8" before the bolt starts rotating...this is the "moving individually" I was referring to, I was "hoping" it was there...the bolt seems to rotate all the way to the unlocked position before the carrier starts pulling it to the rear...the only way the bolt could be rotating while still under load is if the carrier started pulling it as soon as the op rod hit it...but thats not how it works...the carrier has to move that 1/8", which don't take long...but thats long enough for the bullet to exit the barrel, let the pressure drop, and let the brass to let go of the chamber walls....bolt thrust has done been and gone by this time.

    The 516 bolt does have radiused edges on the side that matters, its made that way, not worn that way...I can tell because of the finish on them.

    AR timing is something I had never considered at all...reminds me of when I first dove into 1911's...and that is one firearm I do understand (but it didn't happen without a lot of effort, and some help)

    In a nutshell...Violent/early extraction issues are possible if everything is not properly timed...but if there was such a timing issue the rifle would probably not run (FTE, short stroke) and would chew up bolt lugs faster than you could change bolts...it wouldn't take long to see the problem.

    I'm not betting the farm that I am correct on this...but it looks right to me.
    Last edited by Ridgerunner665; 08-12-13 at 04:37.

  10. #70
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    tapered case

    Ok, turd in the punch bowl.
    What about a steel case with much more taper?
    Would not more/longer pressure of the bolt/piston be needed to smooth unlocking?

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