The importance of owning a precision capable rifle?

[ASH556]

I realize it's a movie from like 10 years ago, but in Blackhawk Down, the "snipers" were using red dots as optics. We all know that a red dot allows you to more quickly and perhaps easily put rounds into a target. However, these "snipers" had no magnification, didn't dial dope, or even have wind or elevation hold capability.

All the new hotness seems to be the variable power optics on "recce" type rifles with either BDC or Mil-based reticles.

It seems to me that for an AR, it's still tough to beat a red dot sight for the useful range of the rifle.

Maybe it's just me, but unless you're a LEO or Mil sniper, what's the point for having a magnified optic on your AR? Long distance paper punching?

I mean, I guess some guys have fun playing weekend sniper dialing dope and such, and that has it's place, but then why spend all the money for mil-grade equipment? The benchrest guys do it more accurately with super-fine-dot-reticled, 45X Leupolds. Why try to do it with a 10X or 15X Mil-based reticle and "play" sniper.

I can't think of a single CONUS personal shooting situation that would require a "sniper" type weapon.

So what gives, what am I missing? Why do I have a Nightforce on my AR again?

[caelumatra]

Well, I know this is a military application so its not exactly the answer you want, but when we were issued ACOGs in the Marine Corps they told us it was to get a better view of possible IED's.

And you're asking a hard question anyway.

I can't think of a single CONUS personal shooting situation that would require a "sniper" type weapon.

Which shooting situations occur that a regular schmo (who cant carry an ar15 everyday) would need his AR15?

These things we do are for hobby. I know you're not criticizing and I'm not criticizing in return. But hopefully, I'll never use my ar15 in CONUS. Seriously. If I need to...the country is in a bad place. So having an ar15 is just like having a NIghtforce on it.
Whats the point? (self defense not withstanding of course)

Well, whats the point of golf?
Why titanium drivers instead of cheap walmart kind? You're never going to be a pro...why bother? You're just playing at being a pro anyway.

Because its fun and we can. That's why


Edit:
Oh and some people hunt for food. I hope to do that this year for the first time

[ggp2jz]

Why does it matter what someone else does with their money?

[caelumatra]

Why does it matter what someone else does with their money?

I dont think thats the point he's trying to get across

I think he's more trying to ask what a precision optic brings to the table over a RDS in an every day shooting situation in CONUS

[B Cart]

Maybe it's just me, but unless you're a LEO or Mil sniper, what's the point for having a magnified optic on your AR? Long distance paper punching?

I've wondered the same thing. Outside of hunting or paper punching, I can't think of many civilian "self defense" scenarios that would require a long range scope. There are a couple scenarios where it could be helpful to have magnificaion (getting caught in a "Texas tower shooting" type situation), but a good red dot should be sufficient for civilian AR use I would think.

In my opinion, the ideal mix between a red dot and a scope is having a red dot with a flip-to-side magnifier. This allows you to use your red dot like normal, but have the option of quick magnification if a longer precision shot is necessary.

[ASH556]

I dont think thats the point he's trying to get across

I think he's more trying to ask what a precision optic brings to the table over a RDS in an every day shooting situation in CONUS

Exactly!

[ggp2jz]

I dont think thats the point he's trying to get across

I think he's more trying to ask what a precision optic brings to the table over a RDS in an every day shooting situation in CONUS

Ah ok. I completely misread what he was saying then.

[ASH556]

I've wondered the same thing. Outside of hunting or paper punching, I can't think of many civilian "self defense" scenarios that would require a long range scope. There are a couple scenarios where it could be helpful to have magnificaion (getting caught in a "Texas tower shooting" type situation), but a good red dot should be sufficient for civilian AR use I would think.

In my opinion, the ideal mix between a red dot and a scope is having a red dot with a flip-to-side magnifier. This allows you to use your red dot like normal, but have the option of quick magnification if a longer precision shot is necessary.

See, I ran that setup too, but I think you have to be careful when describing the capabilities of the magnifier. "Longer Range" isn't really a capability of the magnifier. "Greater Precision" is. The .223/556 round is pretty flat out to 250, but then it starts dropping quite fast. Also, I know you can walk yourself into a target with a holdover using the RDS/magnifier combo, but I think first round hits are paramount in any practical shooting scenario.

[ASH556]

Well, I know this is a military application so its not exactly the answer you want, but when we were issued ACOGs in the Marine Corps they told us it was to get a better view of possible IED's.

And you're asking a hard question anyway.


Which shooting situations occur that a regular schmo (who cant carry an ar15 everyday) would need his AR15?

These things we do are for hobby. I know you're not criticizing and I'm not criticizing in return. But hopefully, I'll never use my ar15 in CONUS. Seriously. If I need to...the country is in a bad place. So having an ar15 is just like having a NIghtforce on it.
Whats the point? (self defense not withstanding of course)

Well, whats the point of golf?
Why titanium drivers instead of cheap walmart kind? You're never going to be a pro...why bother? You're just playing at being a pro anyway.

Because its fun and we can. That's why


Edit:
Oh and some people hunt for food. I hope to do that this year for the first time

Thanks for taking the time to write this. This is really "the answer." I just wonder sometimes how much we (me included) "need" the Nightforce, S&B, etc for our paper punching safe queens.

[Moltke]

The importance of owning a precision AR is hitting where you're aiming on the target instead of just hitting the target. You don't necessarily have to be very far away to take advantage of this capability, but might not feel comfortable taking the same shot with a regular red dot sight at whatever distance. Additionally, with magnification you will likely be able to better see your target, the surrounding area, and therefore be able to better assess a situation before engaging a threat.

As far as cookie cutter fantasy situations to throw out for discussion, I have none.