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Thread: A5 Annecdotes backed up with something other than "Feel"?

  1. #31
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    I believe in the scientific method. In the case of my A5, however, I bought in based on a preponderance of subjective evidence. The money was relatively trivial. The installation was completely trivial. In my subjective opinion, it helped my shooting with no downside or compromise. It would be mildly interesting to see objective data and I acknowledge that might be useful or comforting to some people, but given my subjective experience with the system, that has passed over into the realm of mental masturbation for me.
    Last edited by Hmac; 03-15-12 at 12:01.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Maybe you and Noodles can join forces on your anti-300BLK/A5 crusade.
    No, I like 300blk. And I haven't made up my mind on the A5 system. My gripe is that no mfgs are using it, and Vltor has put forward shit for actual data on it. Right now, it's the same as those hydrolic buffers until I can see some proof otherwise. Not writing it off, but I'm not going to just take popular opinion for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    As I stated before. I don't care for scientific BS.
    That figuratively kills me a little, literally makes me face palm. Do what you like, but I try to have an understanding of what I'm doing, using, how it works, if it was worth the money, and what my other options are. I treat buying guns, parts, TVs, cars, and food all scientifically, it works for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    1. Allows me to use various uppers on the same lower.
    2. It smoothes out the cycling and recoil of the weapon.
    3. Allows me stay on target and (IMO) allows for faster follow up shots.
    JM2CWYMMV
    How can you prove those are not completely psychological, all in your head? (big question, please answer)

    I'd like some data because it removes "feel" from the story.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodles View Post
    Jon, those are good annecdotes and helpful. I'd like to see what you find for brass locations (which has been a fairly reliable indicator for me in the past), and what you think about gassing on SBRs when suppressed. But overall a helpful review, thanks.
    Like F2S, the location of the brass means little to me, so it's not something I pay attention to unless there's more going on.

    On the other hand, the distance the brass travels does give me some idea if I'm working with the right combination, like if the brass is dribbling out or is flung 20 feet.

    What I have found with the ejection using the A5 is the consistency again. The ejection is strong regardless of the combination.

    I've used the A5 with my 10.5" LMT quite a bit, as well as a few others ranging from 7.5" to 12.5". What I've noticed with my 10.5" is that using the A5, it shoots very smooth. When I shoot suppressed, it makes little difference in terms of the feel and performance. If I'm using an H2 in a carbine RE, there's a noticeable difference when I add the suppressor.

    Where I've noticed the most difference is with carbine gas systems that might be overgassed to begin with. Adding one to my SR15's did little in terms of the way it felt, but it did feel more consistent with different ammo types and with a suppressor.

    With a 16" Colt 6720, I can instantly feel a difference in how snappy the gun feels. I don't care so much about the recoil and that's not really what I mean. What I'm referring to is the action. With the A5 there's less muzzle flip. I don't know, I guess I'm having a hard time explaining it.

    If you have a rifle that is gassed right to begin with and handles well with the ammo you shoot most, you might not see much difference. In my 14.5" mid length I use an H buffer. It handles all types of ammo well and runs strong suppressed. It works so I'm not going to use the A5 like I did at first.

    I hope that's making sense. Over the past year and so many months with the A5, I've put a lot of rounds through those rifles and know them very well. I've seen the subtle differences the A5 makes. I might not run out and buy more, but I'm glad I have the ones I do.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    I could FEEL the difference. That is more important to me. YMMV

    As I stated before. I don't care for scientific BS.
    If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
    Oh no, not another lube thread! Read this first: Lubrication 101.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmac View Post
    I believe in the scientific method. In the case of my A5, however, I bought in based on a preponderance of subjective evidence. The money was relatively trivial. The installation was completely trivial. In my subjective opinion, it helped my shooting with no downside or compromise. It would be mildly interesting to see objective data and I acknowledge that might be useful or comforting to some people, but given my subjective experience with the system, that has passed over into the realm of mental masturbation for me.
    I get that.

    My issue with it is that this SHOULD be a complete marketing failure on Vltor's part. They have one sentence saying how Crane found it more reliable on their site but offer zero supporting claims. They have extremely limited info, relatively high prices (Come on, $60 for a buffer!?), and it's adding part uncommonality between your A5 and non-A5 weapons... but... They seem to be doing very well with it.

    So why is that? How have they convinced this many people to get on board? Have they paid for word of mouth? Is it really just an obviously much better system? Is it because their name is good? Would the A5 system be doing well if Spikes made it? Or would Spikes have to go out of their way to prove it?

    I see what should be a failure given the actual supporting reasons to buy it, but instead is a success. I want to make sure I do not become a sheep following the herd, and that there is an actual benefit to switching to this. For that, I'd like to see some proof.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Like F2S, the location of the brass means little to me, so it's not something I pay attention to unless there's more going on.

    When I shoot suppressed, it makes little difference in terms of the feel and performance. If I'm using an H2 in a carbine RE, there's a noticeable difference when I add the suppressor.
    I like brass location, because it's objective. No amount of of buyers remorse or excited unscientific new toy giddiness forcing me to "feel" a difference can fake where the brass is landing. It's either all over the place, in the same place, or in two completely different places suppressed or not. It's not a great indicator, but it's one that everyone has the tools to record in an unbiased fashion if they choose to look at it.

    Adding the suppressor makes little difference is actually a helpful statement. It's still feel, but I know that adding a silencer to an SBR can make a big and truly noticeable change. It's a better comment than something like softer shooting, because really, we're talking 556 here. The difference in already soft recoil to softer recoil can only be subtle at best.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoby View Post
    Kinda...sorta back on topic.

    In a previous post I had mentioned a "sprong" noise when shooting the A5 suppressed.

    Anybody experience this? Gunz? jon?
    Mine is sprongy as hell. I've been running it with a Noveske 10.5" upper w/ switchblock for about 1000 rounds of M193. I have no scientific data but it has been very reliable and recoil is more manageable than I had expected it to be. Again, no data, just my .02

  8. #38
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    I like flirting with disaster in case that wasn't obvious.

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodles View Post
    I like brass location, because it's objective.
    The combo above ejects at 2 o'clock very consistently. PMC Bronze and the handful of Tula that I've fired had no difference in ejection.

  10. #40
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    I like to pair *good* testing data with actual use. The problem is we see so much bad testing or bad tests that it is often useless to bother with many of the threads.

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