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Thread: A5 Annecdotes backed up with something other than "Feel"?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoby View Post
    You seem to readily take one persons word for something and not the other. Why is that when rob and gunz both offer lots of real experience concerning ARs?
    Because in this case Rob_s seems to understand that overwhelming opinion does not make for an unquestionable product. Gunz says data doesn't matter and it's "feels" better. I would rather see some data. The whole idea above that "it's just better, you dot need data" is insane to me. I am a researcher, it does not compute to me. I see that rob is also a researcher, after seeing his posts throughout the years and his site, I know he puts in the due dillegence.

    And I am taking issue with anyone saying this is "more reliable" WITHOUT also saying how. 99% of M4C posters here are on the Colt, DD, BCM, Noveske, etc are "100% reliable" train. Well... Either they are and adding the A5 will make no difference at all, or they are not in which case isn't it curious none of those mfgs offer the A5 setup? (afaik)

    The A5 could be great, but I would like something better than someone's subjective opinion of feel. Do you want to see proof or listen to fanboys and haters?
    Last edited by Noodles; 03-15-12 at 11:08.

  2. #22
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    Jon, those are good annecdotes and helpful. I'd like to see what you find for brass locations (which has been a fairly reliable indicator for me in the past), and what you think about gassing on SBRs when suppressed. But overall a helpful review, thanks.

  3. #23
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    Why don't you just try it. If you dint like it you can sell it and get your money back. I tried it and didn't like it so I sold it....no scientific test needed.

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodles View Post
    Because in this case Rob_s seems to understand that overwhelming opinion does not make for an unquestionable product.
    I don't recall anyone saying the A5 was a "unquestionable product" Noodles.

    What has been stated by many is that it worked well for them and was reliable. I am sure there are some that don't see any benifit from the system. Who knows....I may be one of them when it is all said and done.

    Data is fine and in some instances necessary to make an evaluation of a product. I don't see this as one of them.

    You and rob go crunch some numbers. I'll go shoot the thing, see if it functions, see how good it "feels", make a determination on whether I like it or not and then go clean my gun while you guys scratch your heads wondering what all that data shit really means.
    Scoby


    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in “On Crimes and Punishment”, 1764

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodles View Post
    Jon, those are good annecdotes and helpful. I'd like to see what you find for brass locations (which has been a fairly reliable indicator for me in the past), and what you think about gassing on SBRs when suppressed. But overall a helpful review, thanks.
    All data indicates that brass ejection pattern is only useful in diagnosing issues when the numerous other indicators will tell you just as much.

    Quote Originally Posted by wahoo95 View Post
    Why don't you just try it. If you dint like it you can sell it and get your money back. I tried it and didn't like it so I sold it....no scientific test needed.
    Can you talk on this a bit more?
    Curious as to what didn't work for you.
    Not trying to poke holes, just looking for information.

    I see no problem with backing up physical perception and observation with real data, or vice versa.
    I got an A5 to try out for functional reasons and found that I liked the shootability of the system as well.
    Considering that I didn't have any issues with function before I put it on, I can't really say that it has improved anything, but it doesn't seem to have hurt, though that is hardly a compelling reason for anyone else to buy one.
    Jack Leuba
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  6. #26
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    rob,

    I don't care if you like it or not, nor am I asking you to "dumb yourself down" as you put it.

    I also sold all of my stock in Vltor so there is no financial incentive for me either. . I am simply sharing my experience with the A5 which is probably over 4K rounds maybe closer to 5. Suppressed and unsuppressed with multiple ammunition types.

    Maybe you and Noodles can join forces on your anti-300BLK/A5 crusade.

    As I stated before. I don't care for scientific BS. What I care about is what is it doing for me. For me it does the following;

    1. Allows me to use various uppers on the same lower.

    2. It smoothes out the cycling and recoil of the weapon.

    3. Allows me stay on target and (IMO) allows for faster follow up shots.

    JM2CWYMMV

    I also put a lot of stock in the opinions of Robb Jensen because I know how much he puts down range.

    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    So because everyone else is content to simply "accept", we all should dumb ourselves down to that level? Idiocracy here we come!

    I find it odd that we're being expected to simply "accept" and that the request for more data is being shouted down. Is there some kind of concern that the numbers won't match the shoulders? If the shoulder guys are so certain of their results I imagine that no amount of data is going to sway them anyway, or they'll simply snipe the results, so what's the harm in asking for, and producing, that data for those that may find it interesting?

    If you're happy with the A5 and a true believer, why do you care what the rest of us do or want? If I tell you I tried it and didn't notice any improvement to justify the added cost, does that somehow reduce the "facts" of your own experience? Or is it just that asshole rob being an asshole again? Seems to be the standard method of dismissing whatever I say when people don't like it.


    Yes, I have. I know that goes against the whole "anyone who tries one will be instantly converted" sort of "face value" we're all supposed to just "accept". I have 1019 rounds on one, which I understand is not a lot however I bet it's more than 90% of the people in the picture thread combined.



    and I assume they were all choking and puking all over right up until then?



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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoo95 View Post
    Why don't you just try it. If you dint like it you can sell it and get your money back. I tried it and didn't like it so I sold it....no scientific test needed.
    You started a post asking about an AR Gold Trigger... Why didn't you just buy one and if you didn't like it, sell it? Crowd sourcing opinions, stories, and proof is why these forums are here.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodles View Post
    You started a post asking about an AR Gold Trigger... Why didn't you just buy one and if you didn't like it, sell it? Crowd sourcing opinions, stories, and proof is why these forums are here.
    I started that thread to see if the trigger proved reliable with 223, 9mm, and. 22 since I shoot all three calibers from ones lower. Wasn't looking for nothing more than opinions which aren't good enough for you based on this thread. I did buy an AR Gold trigger to try......I liked it but I didn't work with my 9mm so I sold it and got all of my money back.

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  9. #29
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    I do not dispute the users of the A5 system that it works well for their purposes.

    However, I second Rob's call for more data. Does anybody have a copy of the cited Crane report?

    For those with BCM 14.5" mid-length uppers and KAC SR-15 intermediate uppers, I can understand why the A5 might not work so well for them. Those uppers were specifically designed and tuned with a carbine buffer system in mind.
    Last edited by justin_247; 03-15-12 at 11:56.

  10. #30
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    Kinda...sorta back on topic.

    In a previous post I had mentioned a "sprong" noise when shooting the A5 suppressed.

    Anybody experience this? Gunz? jon?
    Scoby


    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in “On Crimes and Punishment”, 1764

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