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Thread: Help me choose an 9mm SMG.

  1. #11
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    My SMG is a MAC, but if I were you I'd pick up a 9mm upper, block of your choice, and an SWR Octane.

    Use the $$,$$$ you saved on ammo and BOOM... you're in business.

    I like my 9mm AR better than my AT-94P or my M-11/9 + Lage anyway.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    I own all of them.

    For practical applications the MP5 is the best, followed by the Uzi and then the Mac 10.

    For long term serviceability the Uzi is best, followed by the Mac 10 and then the MP5.

    There are many problems related to "transferable" MP5s which are all conversions that began life as a HK94, there are no pre68 factory imports. The most reliable are probably the registered trigger box conversions done by DLO as they use factory MP5 sears and sear trip levers. The next best option is the registered receiver conversions which use factory swing down trigger packs. Registered sear conversions, even the best ones like Qualified, use a non factory setup that can easily result in timing problems. These are also all friction sear setups vs. factory roller sear setups.

    Uzis also come in a variety of flavors from registered bolt to registered receiver conversions but these conversions are a lot more forgivable in terms of performance issues than HK94 to MP5 conversions. The ability to swap bolts and barrels without tools means you can probably run an Uzi for centuries. The main drawback of the Uzi is it's weight.

    Mac 10s are of course factory machine guns with the ergonomics of a brick, a flimsy folding stock and a excessively high cyclic rate. Many of the problems of the Mac 10 can be corrected with LAGE uppers but they still leave a bit to be desired. They have the advantage of being available in greater numbers and thus more affordable.
    The HK was by far the most ergonomic and smooth gun. Price is acceptable. However, the myriad of factory standard and non-standard configurations regarding the FCG & parts and potential gunsmithing expertise (a la 1911) got me concerned. Though the UZI was not as handy nor as customizable, mags are readily available. It also looked simple on the outside to maintain myself. The M10/11 type guns were on the list because of the Lage uppers and it can be customized. Any similar custom options for the UZI? As for the a Colt SMG: it is still the same size as my Colt M16 with a 10.5 inch upper and I still want a dedicated .556 gun.

  3. #13
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    If you have your heart set on a dedicated SMG in 9, I would go with the MP5. That is the Cadillac of 9mm sub guns. If you want a shooter as opposed to a safe queen as an investment, get a sear gun. This way you can grow your collection with several hosts, all the way to belt-fed, as time and money allows. You can buy several clones for the price of a genuine HK host. That being said, do your homework; some clones have reliability issues. I just sold my genuine MP5 with Qulaified sear. With the cash I got from that, I was able to buy several other SMG's including a Vector MP5 which runs just as well.
    Brian
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  4. #14
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    We still have a few MP5s left in the arsenal, I've shot the UZI plenty, the MAC's are a joke, designed as a drop behind enemy lines, arm the opposition disposable insurgency weapon. I have never been a fan of the Colt SMG, a cheap answer to a question no one asked. If you are serious about getting an NFA full auto SMG then the MP5 is the only way to go, unless you can get access to some of the new B&T's.

  5. #15
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    I also own all three, an all German MP5K-PDW with registered DLO trigger frame, Vector fullsize Uzi, and Cobray M11.

    Of the three the mp5k-PDW is the one that comes to the range 100% of the time. With an 80 deg locking piece the ROF is perfect. It is the Rolex of SMGs in my opinion. Great options for mounting optics using the B&T mounts. The downside is that parts are expensive and you really cannot perform armorer level maintenance in your home workshop. But it is still my favorite.

    The UZI is a phenomenal SMG and I would never want to be without one in my collection. ROF is adjustable using various buffers. Caliber conversions are available, with 22lr, 9mm, 357 SIG, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP all as options. It suppresses very well, subjectively better than both the fullsize mp5 and the K. Optic mounting options are available but less desirable than mp5 due to the fact that they are installed on the top cover. Spare parts are in plentiful supply, though barrels are harder to come by. US made barrels are available from Green Mountain. My barrel is cut down and with a 3-lug added.


    If you want a DLO trigger frame, Doug Oefinger currently has them up for sale. He will only periodically sell them. He currently get $15k for the stripped registered frame.
    http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/i...uery=retrieval


    There is a gent selling a DLO frame in an all German MP5 host for $22k I believe, which is not terrible if you look at the accessories he has listed with it.

    http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/i...uery=retrieval
    Last edited by JoshNC; 03-25-12 at 12:14.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
    Any similar custom options for the UZI?

    They make side cocking top covers and top covers with rails, but honestly I think it is kinda like customizing a horse and buggy with spinners.

    In any situation where a 10 lb. open bold subgun is going to be suitable, it will be a situation where side cocking and optics aren't critical to the situation. That said, given the dismal peep sights of the Uzi if you were going to address anything that would be the place to start.

    The Uzi was once the premier SMG but those days ended sometime in the 1970s and even the current head of the class, the MP5 and it's variants, have a very narrow and specialized practical application.

    Ironically the MP5 is probably now more suited to the civilian home defender than the MIL/LE applications it was designed for.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

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  7. #17
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    It depends on what you want to do with it. I own two, an M-16 with 9mm conversion and SWD M-11/9mm with a Lage Max-11 upper.

    For subgun matches and fun at the range I like the Max-11. Mine uses converted Suomi double feed magazines.

  8. #18
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    Here are my opinions, for what they are worth-if you have a FA M-16 lower just buy a Colt 9mm upper and call it a day. That is one nice thing about the 16 platform is that there are so many options out there for it.

    As for the Mac, Uzi, MP5 argument-Mac's are ok if you want to blast through ammo and look "Gangsta" and while the MP5 is a great weapon, mags are expensive, parts are expensive, caliber conversions are expensive (seeing a trend here????) the Uzi is one of the SMG's out there IMO. They are simple to work one, parts are easy to get and replace, mags are cheap, caliber conversions are out there and still being made. There is also a SMG you forgot to mention-the Sterling Mk4. For a smooth running, decent price ($6-$8,000) mags are pricy, but for anyone who has loaded a Sterling mag will agree with me that they are the best mag to load EVER.

    In the end, its all up to you and how much you want to spend. Just be ready to spend money and wait 6-7 months for your new gun.

  9. #19
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    I do not own any full auto guns and probably never will but the MP5 seems like the only logical way to go. That's a fine, fine weapon, my friend.

  10. #20
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    I have owned or shot them all and I kept the Swedish K while selling off my Colt 9mm, MP5 and MP5K.

    I think you are leaving out a few other alternatives. Look into the Sterling, its a excellent SMG as well and you can get barrels with the 3 lug on it for MP5 suppressors. I have a threaded barrel for my Swedish K if I want to suppress it as well.

    The MAC is a useless POS unless you Lage it.

    Which ever SMG you buy, or any MG for that matter, have a complete spare parts kit for it at minimum. Parts may be plentiful right now but later on they will dry up. Since you are going with 9mm ammo will be available but when ever I buy a MG I always buy at least 10K rounds of its caliber too. Thsi has really saved me for several of my guns like the Swedish BAR, ZB26, M3A1 Gease Gun and Ppsh41. All those guns I got the ammo cheap and have plenty on hand with enough until I most likely die.

    For machine guns I am really into very controllable guns. I made a list of them in order how I feel about their controllablility.

    As for rating SMGs from most controllable (for me) to least my list looks like this (only military models, I'm not going to cover custom or civilian only SMGs:

    1. Beretta P12S
    2. Beretta 38A
    3. Swedish K
    -- Sterling
    -- MP5 9mm
    4. Soumi
    -- S&W 76
    -- Ppsh41
    -- Pps43
    5. Madsen 50 SMG
    -- M16 9mm
    -- MP41
    -- MP40 / MP38
    -- Walter MPL
    6. UZI - full size
    7. MP28.II
    -- MP34
    -- Lanchester
    -- MP5K
    -- Sten Mk2
    -- Walter MPK
    8. M3A1 Grease gun
    9. M3 Grease gun - don't ask me why but the two grease guns seem to behave differently to me.
    10. H&K UMP 9mm
    11. H&K UMP 40
    12. H&K UMP 45
    13. Reising M50
    14. Thompson M1 M1A1 or 1928
    15. Thompson 1921
    16. MAC 11 380acp
    17. MAC 12 380acp
    18. MAC 10 9mm
    19. MAC 11 9mm
    20. MAC 10 45acp
    21. Micro Uzi

    You might also consider a 22LR SMG and just buy the conversion parts for your M16 to 9mm. That way you get a 9mm SMG and a 22LR SMG for less than a MP5 would set you back.
    Last edited by Mongo; 03-26-12 at 13:16.
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