
Originally Posted by
az doug
I agree and never wrote that they were "the same kind of proving ground..." I only wrote that which SMG you should buy depends on what you are going to do with it and that in the arena of subgun matches the Max series is a better/more winning choice than an MP-5.
Honestly, when it comes to things like subgun matches, it is usually the shooter more than the weapon. If your competitors swapped weapons for a year I bet the same shooters would still win most of the matches only this time with the MP5.
I'm really not here to bash on the MAC/Lage system. I've seen too many people win with it. But I've seen the occasional shooter do the same with a S&W 76 but I don't think that is due to the merits of the 76 itself.

Originally Posted by
az doug
There aren't any "Elite Units" around here still using MP-5s. We gave them up in the late 80's for Styer Augs and Colt Commandos. Many agencies around here are still using Commandos and two others are using POFs. The Styer Augs went away years ago. One of the Agencies with POFs just got rid of their HK-416s for them. They only had their 416s for a year. I can't speak for the Military or any other State... I can only speak to my surrounding area.
And before that the MP5 was adopted in place of those old M16s. This was more about caliber doctrine than the merits of M16s vs. MP5s. Same way the FBI suddenly went to .40 handguns and MP5/40s as a result of the Miami shootout.
Following Princess Gate everyone decided that a short, pistol caliber SMG that was capable of first shot placement and controllable during automatic fire was the way to go and that is why everyone soon had to have an MP5. Within a decade military forces and elite LE began to encounter situations like bad guys wearing body armor and realized the limitations of pistol caliber SMGs for special circumstances. This combined with a FBI materials test and of course the North Hollywood shootout sent most people running back to the M16 platform, usually in an M4 configuration.
The modern MAC is an interesting platform really. It doesn't suffer the weight issue of the Uzi and in one respect it is a more advanced generation than the MP5 due to the magazine inserting directly into the handle vs. the older forward magazine mount typically found on MP40 type weapons. First time I ran a MAC / Lage setup it was surprising to me because I had expected a MAC covered in Tapco shit.
It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.
Chuck, we miss ya man.
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