NG standby generator vs portable gasoline generator

[zacbol]

I searched on here and found a few threads on generators but nothing that really answered my questions...

We recently moved into a new home and within the first month of living here, we lost power due to massive snowstorm in the Seattle area. Luckily, we have some great neighbors, and one ran an extension cord from one of his *extra* generators to help us out. Even then it sucked pretty hard as it was very cold and since we didn't have a transfer switch we couldn't run our furnace.

My first inclination was to go all out and get an automatic stand-by 14kw Kohler and have the local utility run the NG line to it. My only concern is that we *do* live in Washington and in the case of an earthquake, the NG lines might be damaged or shut-off:
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....tor/p8199.html

The other option is a portable generator. But everytime I think I've landed on a decent one, I read some worrying feedback. I've read some particularly bad things about Generac. Here are the three units I'm currently looking at and I'm leaning towards either the "value-priced" Ridgid 8kw generator with a Subaru engine or the Honda-based NorthStar Generator at 10kw. The Generac is still in the running despite mixed feedback (it's not widespread enough to totally turn me off)
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...7368_200467368

http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-Ou...&storeId=10051

http://www.homedepot.com/Generac/h_d...&storeId=10051

Do keep in mind this isn't about TEOTWAWKI or anything like that. Just your garden variety power outages. I'm not worried about the Mongol hordes being drawn by the sound of a generator, though I would rather not feel like I'm living in a jet engine while it's on. Most likely any outages we experience will be due to snow or windstorms and of limited duration. It's hard to tell how frequently these events will happen, but I will say it was telling that *everyone* in our cul-de-sac had one except us. I still am very attracted by the convenience of an automatic standby, not needing to have large quantities of gas on hand in the case of an extended outage, that it would be somewhat quieter, and that it would run almost the entire house (sans things like the washer/dryer, dishwasher). Cost is a factor, but not the primary deciding factor.

Thoughts?

[Blstr88]

I personally would prefer NOT to have to rely on a utility to run my generator. To me that sort of defeats the purpose.

I have a diesel generator hooked up to run about 75% of my house. I keep 40 gallons of diesel in an aux tank in the back of my truck, 10 gallons of diesel in 2 fuel cans, plus whatever is in my trucks tank which is usually 30+ gallons.

What Im getting at is you almost always have gas available, between whatever vehicles you have that gives you quite a few gallons and its real easy to grab a few gas cans and keep them topped off and rotated out by just using the fuel in your cars.

I personally would prefer a stand-alone gas or diesel generator. Like you said, if something happens to the NG supply you're SOL...

[PA PATRIOT]

More expensive and it may violate local flammable storage regulations in you neck of the woods but if possible a stand a lone propane tank large enough to power your generator for several days may work for your situation.

[zacbol]

More expensive and it may violate local flammable storage regulations in you neck of the woods but if possible a stand a lone propane tank large enough to power your generator for several days may work for your situation.

I considered the automatic standby and burying a 500-gallon propane tank, but that starts to cross the line of what I really want to spend. As I've costed it out, the 14kw generator with installation and NG hookup would be around 6k. The propane tank would probably add another 1.5k to that--but I haven't gotten an actual quote.

I was a little scattershot in my post, but a large part of what I was looking for was direct experience on particular portable generator brands (recent models) in terms of noise, dependability, quality, etc.

[Dave L.]

I personally pan to have both. I like the idea of using NG as long as possible and saving the portable generator for a worst-case scenario or if you had to get out of town.
Also, the portable unit could always be loaned to a neighbor or family member for short term outages (like elderly people needing AC).

I'm also hoping to do a small off-grid solar array, just enough to charge phones, lights, car batteries, and other small items.

I don't believe there is one 100% reliable source for electricity.

[alank2]

Hi,

If your furnace just needs electricity to run the blower, most any genset will power it. My furnace is NG and it takes about 1000 watts to run the blower (around 8 amps @ 120v). If your furnace is direct wired as most are, you can easily add a male and female connector inline so that in a power outage, you can unplug the furnace from house power and plug it into an extension cord.

I've got a 3000W camping inverter style generator (120V only) and it ran my furnace, lights, TV, refrigerator, chest freezer, and microwave on occasion during an ice storm a couple of years ago for 4.5 days. It consumed only about 5 gallons of gas per day. I store enough gas for 5-6 days using double treated Stabil in non venting metal gas cans.

Still, gas is a pain to treat, rotate, and fill, I really like the idea of diesel, propane, or NG. Just make sure you don't get one of those 12KW gas generator that burns more fuel than you can store easily.

I use a multi circuit style transfer switch I picked up from nooutage.com. You can switch 10 household circuits between house power and generator power with no risk of back feeding.

Good luck,

Alan

[alienb1212]

If you've got that kind of money, use Diesel, propane/NG gennys tend not to be as efficient, and propane is EXPENSIVE.

If I was able to due to funds I would bury a 500gal tank, and get one of the home standby generators that are whisper-quiet, and then again build a quiet-box over it like a few members have suggested here in other threads. Nothing says "Come and have my stuff" like a big loud generator set.

[juliomorris]

You can get tri fuel conversion kits for most generators. I picked up 2 for mine.

[pmarc]

As I've costed it out, the 14kw generator with installation and NG hookup would be around 6k. The propane tank would probably add another 1.5k to that--but I haven't gotten an actual quote.

Is it possible to have your NG installation stand-alone? I mean without the hookup? Then you would have to have scheduled bulk deliveries...

At least on these parts, most NG is truck-delivered. Since I'm in another continent, that information might carry zero meaning to you.

I'll also second muffling your exhaust and minizing your visible signs of power. Any signature is like a giant white and red circle painted over your house.

[zacbol]

The actual hookup cost is a minor part of the cost (about $500). The main cost is the generator itself. I understand given this forum's focus the concern on noise/etc, but honestly I'm not doing this as a tactical exercise and it's a non-concern to me at present. Add to that that during the last outage *everyone* in my neighbornhood (except me) had a generator running, so I wouldn't exactly stand out.

I've narrowed my options down to the two options on the furthest end of the specturm (for me): the Ridgid 8kw generator with a manual transfer switch, running on gasoline. It could power the basics for a couple days (without having absurd amounts of gas on hand) and would be about $2k when it's all said and done. Or...the 14kw Kohler with NG at about $6k. Our area while still prone to earthquake is not Seattle and I think it's a relatively less likely event the NG lines would be disrupted.

I'm still trying to decide if it's worth the extra expense. The crux of the matter is cost vs the liklihood of an extended outage. That said, the portable gen would only help for events lasting a day or two, which actually woudln't be that bad in the first place (I can live without power for a bit, though b/c it occured in winter it was a bit of a problem this last time). The *real* problem would be an extended event and the NG unit would be the only viable option there--though as noted if NG was cut, i wouldn't help. As someone else suggested, I think my first choice (cost ignored) would be the standby unit, plus a smaller gasoline powered unit.

I did find this, which I'm using in my cost/benefit analysis and contains a statistical analysis of liklihood of various outage types and their predicated durations (though it's from 2004)
http://create.usc.edu/research/50772.pdf