4 LD Gel tests with .357 magnum 145 gr Silvertips??

[Fail-Safe]

You might be right. But I doubt that BOTH factors would suffer because of the extra velocity, but without properly conducted gel tests we won't know for sure.

They have in the past with other calibers.

Of course without the means to conduct my own testing, I am merely proposing hypotheticals. With the popularity of the lightweight snub nose revolver, especially the 340, 360, etc, which are chambered in the .357 and the development of the loads mentioned above, maybe they should be tested so that data can compared.

Do you know why they are chambered in .357mag? Because people cannot seem to grasp the fact that velocity isnt everything in a handgun round. Because people just cant get over the fact that all that blast, flash, and recoil is doing anything for them. Because people are still swayed by simple marketing from going on 80+ years ago. As long as there is a .357magnum, people are going to continue demand a snubbie.

More important? No, but it certainly could play a factor in deciding what to carry. The extra recoil and flash of a .357 mag, with normal power loads, are the reason why most people, who own these light weight short barrel revolvers, carry .38's in them. If you have to different rounds that both perform adequately, but one has much more recoil and flash, preventing faster follow up shots, then which one would you choose?

I would choose the round that offers less recoil, blast, and flash everytime. If, and thats a big if, the lighter round had less penetration and expansion, yet still made minimums, so be it. Because I believe when carrying, "sharing is hating" (trademark by me), I want to put as many accurate rounds into my assailant(s) as fast as possible

On another note, would my posts indicate that statement to this point?

Yes, when you state, "I guess I will find out how much more recoil and flash there is in the .357 mag when I finally get to shoot mine, with the Rem GS and BB loads I have on the way. Maybe that will make up my mind without caring how much better they do in gel tests."

To me it seems you are willing to forego terminal ballistics for an increase in external ballistics.

I'm the one fretting over slight better numbers But I do believe that it could translate into better real world performance.

I wouldnt fret over penetration and expansion numbers between the two cartridges. I would fret over my shooting skills.

[ack495]

Yes, when you state, "I guess I will find out how much more recoil and flash there is in the .357 mag when I finally get to shoot mine, with the Rem GS and BB loads I have on the way. Maybe that will make up my mind without caring how much better they do in gel tests."

To me it seems you are willing to forego terminal ballistics for an increase in external ballistics.

I think my statement is being misunderstood, but maybe I should have been more clear. When I said that I would make up my mind after just shooting the light magnum loads, and would not care how they did in gel tests, I meant that the recoil and flash of these loads would prove to be too much over the .38+p's. Therefore their gel tests results would be a mute point in my opinion, because even a slight improvement in testing results would not be worth it. I am not one of those folks that get off with a big, blue flame out of the end of my barrel and my hand hurting after 5 rounds.

But c'mon. We all know that even a hit to the arm with a .357 mag will cause the bad guy's organ's to explode from the energy! Chicks dig one shot stops.

I wouldnt fret over penetration and expansion numbers between the two cartridges. I would fret over my shooting skills.

But its so much fun to do both. But seriously, as a full time police officer for the last 7 years, I take my training seriously. Unfortunately more than the majority of my coworkers. Training with my new BUG, like all the tools I have at my disposal, will not be an issue.

[KCabbage]

Acceptable numbers indeed. Especially for this platform.

Call me hard to please I guess. 12" is the mininum, 18" is the max, so while 13.5" is good but that still gives me a 4.5" window. Not that tight, actually the bigger slice of the acceptable range. I'm a looking for 14+-18, but hey, YMMV.

I actually was pretty close to calling you that. I'm under the impression that 15"+ of penetration usually results in a pass through.

I'm not against what you're trying to do. You want more penetration and I can understand that.

[Compuvette]

For me it's also a heavier slug possibly going 12+ inches. Maybe I'm assuming too much, but I'm guessing. 125gr or 140gr DPX has the potential to expand a little more and maybe push a little deeper given the extra "umph" available with a light 357 mag load. Personally, I'm not looking for more velocity, I'm looking for a heavier slug. It just feels like the DPX/GDSB/Bonded Rangers (in 38+p) barely make spec. Seems like with a little more weight and power ability that you could take advantage of in a light mag you could have a little more room for error. Especially in a k-frame or steel J-frame where the slight increase in recoil wouldn't matter much.

Again, please correct me if I'm over thinking this and thanks.

[ack495]

For the OP:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/357magnum.htm

Dated info but some viable data on the silvertip.

So far in my evaluation of shooting "light" .357 mag loads out of my Ruger LCR, I have found they still have significant recoil in this platform. And, as DocGKR has already stated, even if their performance is slightly better than .38+p, it is not worth the extra juice their pumping.

I have tried a box each of both Buffalo Bore 125gr JHP and 140gr JHP tactical short barrel loads. Both accurate rounds. I actually had my best 5 shot group, off hand slow fire, at 7 yards with the 125gr load. But even compared to Speer 135gr short barrel, these rounds, while not painful, they produce a noticeable increase in recoil, slowing down the ability to get the gun back on target.(Not as nearly as bad as some Fiocchi full power loads I tried as well. 5 shots and I was all set thanks)

The Remington golden saber 125gr BJHP on the other hand wasn't bad at all. The claims that its a true med power .357 mag seems to be true. While there is a bit more recoil over the Speer .38+p, it was still very manageable. Their accuracy was also very good. When I'm in a magnum mood, I will have these stoked in the gun. I have read that the Corbox DPX is also pretty mild, relatively speaking, so if I run across those I may give them a whirl.

For now, I think will try out different .38's to see what I like best. I have some Buffalo bore 150gr wadcutters and Winchester 130gr +p bonded enroute to try out. I like the idea of the gun loaded with deep penetrating full wadcutters, with speed strips of +p's for reloads.

[DocH]

The Golden Sabres are ok. They are about all I want anymore in my 2 1/2 inch 19,but I have been carrying the Gold Dot SB 38's for a while now.
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the BB 150gr wadcutters when you are finished. I am considering these for a primary load in a dehorned Mod 10-5,with speedloaders of the Gold Dot.
I'm real interested in the actual performance of the Win.RA38B,too. I've heard both good and not so good,but I'd go on DocGKR's word until I actually saw poor performance for myself.

[ack495]

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the BB 150gr wadcutters when you are finished. I am considering these for a primary load in a dehorned Mod 10-5,with speedloaders of the Gold Dot.
I'm real interested in the actual performance of the Win.RA38B,too. I've heard both good and not so good,but I'd go on DocGKR's word until I actually saw poor performance for myself.

Yeah, I have seen some testing where the PDX failed to expand after passing through denim first. But that wasn't through ballistic gel. In another test using ballistic gel it performed perfectly. It think the Ranger bonded and PDX use the same bullet. Manufacturers testing results seem very favorable and they have Doc's blessing, so they should be good to go:

http://winchesterle.com/Products/han...ges/RA38B.aspx

Probably perform very similar to the Speer SB load. But I'm finding them cheaper and more readily available at the moment.

The Buffalo Bore wadcutters seem promising as well. Standard pressure, deep penetrating, and should have pretty mild recoil.

I plan on doing my own water jug testing with denim. I like doing it, and while you take the results with a grain of salt, it's nice to compare performance across the same media. And I have a ton of testing material. I drink about 3 gallons of milk a week.

[DocH]

You're correct,sir.The pricing and availability is a consideration for me in going with the RA38B over the Gold Dot loads. I really don't want to go any lighter in bullet weight,even though I know some of the 110 grainers(such as DPX) have had good showings.

[KCabbage]

Its also been noted that the .38 Ranger load has noticeably less recoil than the Speer load.

[DocH]

Its also been noted that the .38 Ranger load has noticeably less recoil than the Speer load.

Yes,sir,I found this to be true.My brother bought every kind of 38 load imaginable for his daughter's new SP 101.When they were up two weeks ago,I tried a couple of cylinders of the Ranger loads in a Mod 10 snub,and the difference to me was noticeable,especially in rapid fire.