Leupold 1x14 Tactical Prismatic Rifle Scope?

[feedramp]

Thanks James, that helps explain it.

[Canonshooter]

Tomac and James7800, great replies.

Sometimes it's difficult to filter out the background noise and bravado on errornet forums, but your replies are objective and helpful to those who are following this thread.

[kelly neal]

A Prismatic and an Aimpoint are completely different animals.

An Aimpoint, or any other reflex sight, is designed to provide infinite eye relief and be nearly paralax free. It does this by using light from an LED to reflect off the front lens. LED's have become highly efficient and this allows for a very long battery life. There are also some downsides to this system. You can't have an etched reticle because if you etched the lens it would just stay in the same place and no longer be paralax free. Also the front lens isn't perfectly clear because it has to be made to reflect light back from the LED while still letting light through from the front.

The Prismatic on the other hand is more like a tradition rifle scope but with no magnification. Instead of seeing straight through some lenses like on a reflex sight, the light is bent in a prism inside the scope. This means the scope will have paralax and limited eye relief. To illuminate the reticle requires more light than just a tiny LED resulting in a much shorter battery life. The advantages that the system brings is a much clearer picture and a sharper reticle that doesn't require illumination to be used.

Both systems have very little in common and as a result perform very differently. Both work very well for what they were designed to do, but it's really comparing apples to oranges.

Yaah, we have a winner. From my understanding from Leupold, the power it takes to illuminate an etched reticle is far beyond what it takes to project a holographic image or LED. So with current technology, the Prismatic will always have substantially shorter battery life. Putting a Prismatic on a rifle used in lowlight/dark conditions WILL cost you more in batteries.

A shooter CAN co-witness through a Prismatic although there is some distortion. A quick removal scope base is probably a better route.

I'm not saying everyone should run out and sell their Aimpoints or Eotechs or that the Prismatic is the ultimate expression of the 1X sight. It is not but neither are the Aimpoint or Eotech. Each has benefits and drawbacks - although I remain convinced that the Prismatic is a much superior competition rifle sight.

The idea that the Prismatic is an ineffective sight is silly. Jim D, you don't have to care what I may or may not be using but you ignore what is happening in the competitive realm at your own peril. It is where both the Aimpoint and Eotech got their start. We would not even being having this discussion if Jerry Barnhart, Doug Koenig, etc. had not been putting RDS on their pistols in the late 80s, early 90s or had Bennie Cooley not introduced the Eotech during his rifle classes. It is important to know your history.

[Singlestack Wonder]

Bottom line, the prismatic is OK for ipsc competition and gun games, but not for real world applications, period. No need to re-hash all of the reasons why.

If someone want to use it for real world use, good luck...........

[Jim D]

The idea that the Prismatic is an ineffective sight is silly. Jim D, you don't have to care what I may or may not be using but you ignore what is happening in the competitive realm at your own peril. It is where both the Aimpoint and Eotech got their start. We would not even being having this discussion if Jerry Barnhart, Doug Koenig, etc. had not been putting RDS on their pistols in the late 80s, early 90s or had Bennie Cooley not introduced the Eotech during his rifle classes. It is important to know your history.

Kelly, I'm well aware of where they got their start, but are you suggesting that the Prismatic is now "sweeping" the 3-gun circuits and shooters are switching over in droves to them? That certainly doesn't mirror what I'm seeing having worked for two different Leupold/ Aimpoint/ Eotech dealers, but hey, maybe they're getting them elsewhere while we sell zero of them (we sold over 100 Aimpoints last month though, by comparison).

That you may be a talented 3-gun shooter who prefers that prismatic doesn't make it any better or worse than it is.

If I wanted an etched reticle optic, I'd buy a Tri-Power that I really don't need to worry about battery life on. But we both know how well that's selling for Trijicon.

Even having an astigmatism, myself... I still have zero interest in buying the Leupold. My rifle usage is not yours though, and if it works well for the games, then great. For me, a slightly sharper reticle isn't worth the nose-dive in battery life for night-time use (my rifle is my preferred HD gun, too), isn't worth the trade off with eye relief and position (shooting from unconventional shooting positions) and the complications that come with running BUIS's (which I run up, all the time).

Were this a competition thread, or a competition forum... you might get some more love on it. If that's the OP's use, then great. As a whole though, most folks here are not hard core competitors, and setup their guns with other priorities in mind.

[Canonshooter]

Bottom line, the prismatic is OK for ipsc competition and gun games, but not for real world applications, period. No need to re-hash all of the reasons why.

If someone want to use it for real world use, good luck...........

Evidently, the Russian military does not agree. They have a sight called the PK-AS, which is a (gasp) 1X prismatic sight with an illuminated dot reticle for low-light use.

Not sure why the (vastly superior*) Leupold version wouldn't be good for "real world applications."

*I've owned both so I speak from first-hand experience.

[Jim D]

Evidently, the Russian military does not agree. They have a sight called the PK-AS, which is a (gasp) 1X prismatic sight with an illuminated dot reticle for low-light use.

Not sure why the (vastly superior*) Leupold version wouldn't be good for "real world applications."

*I've owned both so I speak from first-hand experience.

The Ruskie's are not who most of us take a our tactical advice from... FYI.

Having to turn on your optic when you need it is a clear disadvantage for a patrol or HD gun. Being that (statistically speaking) the majority of shootings occur is poor light... using a non illuminated reticle could really be an issue.

The majority of 3-gun matches occur during the day on an outdoor range. The same can not be said of domestic acts of violence where firearms are used.

[Singlestack Wonder]

Evidently, the Russian military does not agree. They have a sight called the PK-AS, which is a (gasp) 1X prismatic sight with an illuminated dot reticle for low-light use.

Not sure why the (vastly superior*) Leupold version wouldn't be good for "real world applications."

*I've owned both so I speak from first-hand experience.

Thanks for proving the point I made earlier. The russian military is hardly a leading edge example of what works in the real world. I too have used a prismatic when looking for an alternative to Aimpoint due to astigmatism. After owning one for a short while, all of the disadvantages far outweighed the focus feature on the unit so I dumped the prismatic and stuck with Aimpoints and got different glasses.

If the prismatic works for you, great. Just keep a backpack full of batteries and don't bang the prismatic into anything (so as not to knock the light module loose) and you should be good to go should a SHTF situation arise.

I would like to see Leupold duplicate the DDM4 torture test with the prismatic to see how it would fair vs. the Aimpoint T1. I don't think it would make it thru the first few tests.

[Canonshooter]

The Ruskie's are not who most of us take a our tactical advice from... FYI.

That may be so, but it certainly refutes the claim "the prismatic is OK for ipsc competition and gun games, but not for real world applications, period."

Having to turn on your optic when you need it is a clear disadvantage for a patrol or HD gun. Being that (statistically speaking) the majority of shootings occur is poor light... using a non illuminated reticle could really be an issue.

I agree, but obviously this needs to happen with just about anything other than an Aimpoint.

The majority of 3-gun matches occur during the day on an outdoor range. The same can not be said of domestic acts of violence where firearms are used.

True, but I am far more likely to have to solve any self-defense problem with my EDC 9mm Walther PPS than with my AR.

I appreciate your latest responses. I'm not a fanboy of any particular sight, but I think an honest discussion without the hyperbole and unsubstantiated absolute statements is beneficial for all involved.

[Canonshooter]

I would like to see Leupold duplicate the DDM4 torture test with the prismatic to see how it would fair vs. the Aimpoint T1. I don't think it would make it thru the first few tests.

I agree, that would be a very tough act to follow, but we won't know until someone tries. There was a recent thread about a torture test of an EOTech (inspired by the same DDM4 test) that most predicted it would fail miserably, but it did not. In fact, everyone was suprised how much abuse the EOTech took and kept on running.

So, I'll consider myself in a very small minority that doesn't think the prismatic is as bad as some say. Color me stupid, I guess....