Interesting take on bore axis

[munch520]

Re-posted with permission

I've read countless times, including here, that some hanguns like HKs and sigs have a high bore axis making them less desirable. I kinda grew tired of this so i took my USP and placed it side by side the benchmark of all handguns, my colt 1911. surprise! these were taken without any tricks, both were taken from nearly exact same distance, and the same angle - in line with the line where the frame meets slide.


measuring from where the thumb web is indexed, to the firing pin which of course is the approximare location of the center of the bore, there doesn't seem to be a significant difference! so, what's with all the "HKs have a higher bore axis thus more recoil / difficult to shoot / more muzzle flip / etc..."? I havent done this with a sig though. The glock is a different story being a hammerless weapon and thus having no need for a hammer axle - but these undesirability issues i'm talking of are largely based on a 1911 control group, the 1911 being the perfect pistol. I hope this thread will help convert those who have considered this bore axis thing as an HK undesirable trait.

[munch520]

and a comparison, in inches, with a Glock

HK


Glock


I see 0.25" difference

[rob_s]

He appears to be using a 1911 with a legacy grip safety and not a high-ride beavertail. I guess we could also dredge up Moisin and compare things to an AR15 if we wanted to.

If you're interested in bore-axis you need to eliminate the fat-hand from the equation, and IMO use the most common example of each, to include the beavertail on the 1911. The right way to do this would be to take scale images and show the measurement from the centerline of the bore to the top of the backstrap.

[munch520]

Maybe I can get the original poster do something like that. I don't have that kinda time, and really don't care that much . Just passin something interesting along

[rob_s]

Maybe I can get the original poster do something like that. I don't have that kinda time, and really don't care that much . Just passin something interesting along

I understand, but the internet is full of people putting out "data" that starts from a flawed premise and is motivated by a desire to prove a pre-conceived notion or justify a prior purchase or argument. Most of them don't even realize they are doing just that, but it's painfully obvious in a lot of cases to anyone reading it. Very few people seem to understand, or know, how to remove bias from their "reporting" and instead just vomit forth "information" of questionable value. Provided they can get enough people to rally 'round them and scream "nuh uh!" at any naysayers or anyone trying to inject some amount of intelligence into the discussion, it stands as "fact".

[munch520]

Well then we need a 'bore axis height' spreadsheet!

[Ankeny]

Physics is physics and Torque=Force x Length of the Lever Arm. All things being equal, a higher bore axis will increase the torque. Whether or not the difference in perceived recoil, sight tracking, etc. is worth mentioning is an individual thing.

[Failure2Stop]

I have found bore-axis to be pretty much irrelevant compared to all the other features of a pistol when it comes to actual use.

[HKGuns]

I have found bore-axis to be pretty much irrelevant compared to all the other features of a pistol when it comes to actual use.

As have I....it is primarily used to justify one's purchase or dislikes.

[munch520]

Physics is physics and Torque=Force x Length of the Lever Arm. All things being equal, a higher bore axis will increase the torque.

True. It is science, but is it perceptible?

When I spent my days under the hoods of cars, I almost fell pray to the cold air intake fad. It's science, and K&N will tell you, with a $250 CAI system, you'll realize 8-12hp gain based on your motor. Makes sense, better airflow and more power. What they don't tell you is that they quote break horsepower. Not wheel horsepower. The actual felt (perceptible) gain after drivetrain loss is 1-3hp. Hardly perceptible or justifiable. But there is a difference backed by the science found in internal combustion engines.

All that is to say, no one argues there's a difference. But it becomes debating minutia at this point. Sheldon Coopers of the gun world....