Red Dots on Pistols: Are backup irons really necessary?

[El Cid]

I've searched through the various threads, but didn't really see a discussion on this topic.

Let's say a shooter wants a mini-red dot milled into the slide of a handgun. The make/model of the optic is (mostly) immaterial. The only case where it would be is on the optics that have a rudimentary notch or similar item to facilitate sighting if the optic goes down.

Are backup irons really necessary? Red dots are very robust now, and I can't recall the last time I saw one fail (not including EOTechs of course). I fully believe in the "two is one, one is none" mantra, but when it comes to handguns they are predominantly short range weapons. I'm not advocating not having irons... just trying to get some discussion going on the topic. For a handgun that will be a "nightstand" gun and the longest distance inside my home is not much... I could see making the argument that using the slide or the frame of the optic would provide enough accuracy.

I'm specifically interested in keeping the thread focused on the irons with the only exception being a red dot that has an "iron" sighting mechanism as part of the housing.

With that said, if you have a red dot milled into the slide, do you:

1) Leave the factory front sight and just use the optic (no rear iron sight)?

2) Install suppressor (taller) sights with the rear sight in front of the optic (closer to the ejection port)?

3) Install suppressor sights with the rear sight behind the optic (closer to the shooter)?

4) Install a suppressor front sight and use a notch or painted line on the back of the optic? (this would include mounts such as the LaRue that have the built in peep sight)

Thanks!

[Dave James]

I have not ran one and don't know for sure their strengths, but it would seem to me, at lest a front sight with the red dot, even if the dot goes dark, the hood and clear glass with the front sight would give you a peep sight of sorts, but then again if you know your set up maybe the same would work with just the clear glass and hood of the red dot.

[B Cart]

Doing what it takes to have back up iron sights on the gun is well worth it if you’re running a red dot IMO. Even the best electronics can break or go down, and if my life is on the line, I want all the advantage I can get. I would much rather have sights than not, even in home defense distances.

My brother in law has a FN .45 tactical with the Burris Fast Fire red dot sight. We were taking a 3-day class a couple months ago and the red dot shit the bed half way into the class. Luckily, he has both the front and rear tall suppressor iron sights on there and was able to finish the class just fine. His rear irons are behind the red dot sight, closer to the shooter.

If I were running a red dot, I would definitely have back up irons.

[TAZ]

I think they are definitely worth it. While I think that most of the quality made micro dots are rugged enough to survive the typical shooters use and abuse, I'm more concerned about the weakest link in the system; the battery. Aimpoint can claim 100000000000 years of service and have the data to back it, but they can't guarantee that the Duracell you bought at Home Depot wasnt crispy fried on the way to the store and is an RCH away from crapping the bed as you're paying for it. For that reason I think BUIS are important. Either that or you damn well better practice hitting what you aim at without sights. While it may be easy to hit across the room without sights in the calm of a range session, I doubt that many shooters could do so under serious stress. Hell most people do a lot more missing with sights then we like to admit.

When I get my G21 milled for the RMR, I'm going to have a BUIS installed. I'd like to see the BUIS be unobtrusive (1911-esque blades) and require less milling that the current options, but that isn't going to stop me from having them installed. I'd like to have the RMR as far to the rear of the slide as possible, just to minimize bouncing brass off the thing so the BUIS will go in front.

[cj5_dude]

Well I'd say it really depends on your intended use for the gun. Is it a range only gun or for competitions or is it a personal defense gun that you'll use and carry?

I think if you're carrying it every day with the intention that it could be used for personal defense then you need iron sights. But for a range only gun and a fun gun there's really no real need.

[plouffedaddy]

I think it's probably not necessary due to the close up nature of handgun work but if I'm going to trust my life to the gun, it's worth it IMO.

[foxjordan22]

You absolutely need to have some sort of visual reference in addition to the electronic sight. How elaborate of a secondary sighting system you need is upto you but it needs to be there. You also need to actually verify that the secondary sighting system/BUIS/ref point works well enough for your needs.

None of the current mini red dot sights, excepting the Aimpoint Mirco, are "there" yet is terms of ruggedness and reliability. I've seen or know of first hand failures with the Deltapoint, RMR, L3 MRDS, J Point, Doctor, etc. hell, I even had the battery die on a Micro recently--- for the first time ever. The little J Point "type" (shape/size) sights are better than ever but they still aren't "there" like, say an Aimpoint or an ATPIAL.

This. I use my back up irons as a point of reference to find the DOT. In different shooting positions it can be very hard to locate the DOT without iron sights as a reference.

[yellow50]

I have yet to purchase a red dot pistol sight. However when researching the j point I read an article where the author stated that at night, the dot can be washed out with a powerful enough weapon light. Just one more thing to take into consideration but if it were me, I would absolutely have irons.

[willowofwisp]

There are multiple reasons to have BUIS on your MRDS gun. a few examples

-Wash out
-battery dying
-Screen cracking
-Minired dot some how gets sheared off.

The added cost of BUIS is really minimal and definitely worth its weight in gold IMO. You just need to decided between behind or in front of the red dot.

[TiroFijo]

And then I would add, try it first...

In MY experience, I'm a little faster at close range with irons (where I think pistols count the most), the red dot sights really start to improve accuracy at 15+ yds, and the farther the better (accuracy + speed gains). MRDS are also great in low light.

But I'm concerned about dot wash out, battery life, screen cracks, etc., and specially about rain or condensation on the screen, or mud, blood, dust, on it. I'm a KISS kind of guy.

I'm turning 50 this year, but my eyes are still more than capable to use irons very fast and accurately up to 25 m, and much further if I take a little more time. For ME, the cost, complications, bulk, and specially uncertainties of a MRDS on a handgun are not worth it. YMMV.

If I used a MRDS I would put a BUIS for sure.